A mysterious copy of an Iron Cross

[Wyomingguy]

I just acquired this for my collection and am hoping for some assistance in identifying it. The form is clearly based on a second class EK. It is uniface with a flat back and no marks on the back or ring. The ribbon is of typical black and white grosgrain. The front is well cast with black paint in the center of the arms.

 

The cross has "Furst Wilhelm von Hohenzollern" across the horizontal. On the top arm  "BAY. 22. JR" and on the bottom arm " in treue fest!"

 

The cross is well made with a beaded edge and some weight so it is more than just a tinny copy of an EK2.

 

I assume it is a regimental piece but would wearing such a close copy of an Iron Cross have been permitted.

 

Thanks  for any thoughts in advance.

 

Peter

 

[v.Perlet]

Hello Wyomingguy,

 

due to the chaos reigning in Germany from 1919 onward - with no real government control, I would say anything could and was done.

But the cross is clearly not an EKII award. The ribbon is not a combat award ribbon and I would say that this decoration is merely a veterans association decoration. So yes IMHO it could be worn on a uniform or civilian cloth.

 

Below is one of my (K.O.) EKII's. Note the ring attached to the cross is not horizontal

 

Let's see what other more knowledgeable people have to say.

 

Regards

v.Perlet 

 

Edited January 27, 2022 by v.Perlet

[saschaw]

Link and Gauggel show such a cross, also uniface, but die struck - not cast. If yours is indeed cast, it's probably just a reproduction of that. Or might it actually be struck? However, they describe it as silvered only, without black paint, and according to them, the supposed ribbon is blue and white. No sources are given, but I have seen several of these over the time, and the all were just silvered and if ribboned, not like an Iron Cross. They assume it was instituted after the war by Fürst Wilhelm von Hohenzollern for this Bavarian regiment he used to be Chef of, but no sources are given.

 

It is also featured on the site ehrenzeichen-orden.de. They claim it might have been instituted by Fürst Wilhelm in 1925. Again, no sources.  I personally doubt this was given by the Fürst, and is probably just some souvenir the veterans could obtain. But neither do I have any sources...

 

See: Link, Eva und Gauggel, Heinz. Fürstlich Hohenzollernsche Orden und Ehrenzeichen. Fridingen 1985. p. 196/197.

[Wyomingguy]

Thank you to you both. I agree with both your assessments that it was an item produced for the veterans market. What struck me is both the weight and quality of the piece.  Saschaw...thank you for the link as this is clearly the same as my cross albeit with a different ribbon. In looking at it more closely, it may well be die struck. The back is very well finished and the beading is crisp so I think you are correct that it is probably die struck. The ribbon has been on a very long time so who knows when it was added.

 

Thank you v.Perlet and you are spot on that almost anything could have been done between the wars. I think that is part of the interest, at least for me, in collecting this period.

 

Peter

[ostprussenmann_new]

I find this particular medal interesting.  It almost seems like a Iron cross given for people who didn’t earn them to make them feel good.

 

as war came to be (1939), I could see how swing someone with a fake iron cross could bro about some emotions especially with the ribbon.  Think about seeing that ribbon in a button hole on a uniform.

[Wyomingguy]

I agree totally. It is such a look-alike medal and my sense truly is that it was intended to show off a won "iron cross" even though it is a commemorative.

 

[v.Perlet]

6 hours ago, Wyomingguy said:

I agree totally. It is such a look-alike medal and my sense truly is that it was intended to show off a won "iron cross" even though it is a commemorative.

 

Hello Wyomingguy,

 

let me say, I don't really share that thought.

 

In those days - if one wasn't amongst other Veterans or Freikorps units - most likely he

would have received some stones or whatever being hurled at him from the Communist

and associated organizations. Since he would have openly displayed a symbol attributed

in vast majority towards nationalist oriented people.

(I am refering to his 'nationalist inspired" veterans association cross - NOT about someone

simply wearing an EK on a war-ribbon)

 

Also, being amongst his "spirited nationalist comrades", these people knew exactly what an EK

or a war-ribbon looks like. If the respective person would have worn that Veterans Organizations cross on a war ribbon - I think he would have gotten into problems with his own pals, since at that time a real EK with or without a war-ribbon certainly wasn't hard to come by a person who had actually been awarded with one. Just my 5cents?

 

Regards

v.Perlet

Edited February 12, 2022 by v.Perlet

[saschaw]

On 27/01/2022 at 08:49, saschaw said:

(...) but I have seen several of these over the time (...)

By chance, another one popped up on German ebay recently, and again it's silvered only and on a blue and white ribbon that resembles much (or actually is) the Bavarian long service awards' ribbon. After all, a long service ribbon is a better fit than one that resembles a bravery award's...

 

 

[Grafzee]

I am by no means an authority on the subject, but it appears to me to be a Bavarian royal 22nd infantry cross, awarded to members of that unit during WW1. It also looks like it was repainted black to appear like an iron cross. Its actual appearance should be a one sided silver plated cross. I will try to attach a photo of some examples.

Here’s one other with a grouping of other medals