Naval Jacket

[USN]

Good evening gentlemen,

 

Another jacket I have had for quite some time I haven't been able to identify anything about this one aside from his awards showing service in the Atlantic and Italian theaters, would anyone be able to help me identify the rank on this one?

 

Thank you, 

USN

 

[Gordon Craig]

USN,

 

The rank insignia does not match any Royal Navy type that I am aware of.   I would lean more towards merchant marine but it doesn't match any Merchant Marine  insignia either.  Possibly a tunic from a passenger liner of some company.  The ribbon bar is on upside down. 

 

Regards,

 

Gordon

[USN]

14 minutes ago, Gordon Craig said:

USN,

 

The rank insignia does not match any Royal Navy type that I am aware of.   I would lean more towards merchant marine but it doesn't match any Merchant Marine  insignia either.  Possibly a tunic from a passenger liner of some company.  The ribbon bar is on upside down. 

 

Regards,

 

Gordon

Would the single braid with a different emblem match anything? That anchor is the only thing that isn't sewn securely to the uniform and the ribbons are definitely period but the anchors on both cuffs are loosely attached which could mean they were added later and I honestly don't know why a cruise liner would wear military awards.

[Gordon Craig]

USN,

 

I should have said this before.  This is a put together tunic and who knows what it is.  Someone, who knows nothing about British ribbon bars, has put this bar on upside down.  The single ribbon should be on the top of the ribbon bar.  Not on the bottom.  There is no single piece of braid like the one shown on the sleeve of your tunic in any British navy insignia.  The anchors are loose because they do not belong where they are.  I am afraid that this is a total fantasy and has no relation to any Royal Navy tunic or insignia of any period.

 

Regards,

 

Gordon 

[USN]

8 hours ago, Gordon Craig said:

USN,

 

I should have said this before.  This is a put together tunic and who knows what it is.  Someone, who knows nothing about British ribbon bars, has put this bar on upside down.  The single ribbon should be on the top of the ribbon bar.  Not on the bottom.  There is no single piece of braid like the one shown on the sleeve of your tunic in any British navy insignia.  The anchors are loose because they do not belong where they are.  I am afraid that this is a total fantasy and has no relation to any Royal Navy tunic or insignia of any period.

 

Regards,

 

Gordon 

Fair enough, well if I remember right i don't think I paid a whole lot for it so not a terribly expensive lesson.

 

Thank you, 

Will

[Farkas]

Hi Gents,

I was looking at this and would like to add my tuppence worth...

(It’s 6.54am and this is off top & after 🍺)

 

I would agree this is not a Royal Navy tunic but i’m not so discouraged by the  medal ribbon.

Four ribbons would not be worn 3 over 1, they would be 4 alongside each other, if there is an exception it would be 1 over 3 as Gordon said but the order and those issued look good to me. 

I wonder if there was simply not enough room for the 4 bar, also possibly there was another bar above?

The lack of a defence medal is not uncommon for sailors. The France&Germany star was not issued to those in receipt of the Atlantic star, instead a bar was issued to those eligible for both...

 

 

Medals aside USN, the buttons may offer some insight. If possible could we see a picture of them? Seems at least 2 different types, silvered (unusual) & other.  The design, the material (brass or aluminium) and the reverse of these might help 👍 Lastly, if tailor made, there might be a name tag in one of the pockets 🤞

 

tony

 

 

[USN]

On 28/02/2023 at 23:31, Farkas said:

Hi Gents,

I was looking at this and would like to add my tuppence worth...

(It’s 6.54am and this is off top & after 🍺)

 

I would agree this is not a Royal Navy tunic but i’m not so discouraged by the  medal ribbon.

Four ribbons would not be worn 3 over 1, they would be 4 alongside each other, if there is an exception it would be 1 over 3 as Gordon said but the order and those issued look good to me. 

I wonder if there was simply not enough room for the 4 bar, also possibly there was another bar above?

The lack of a defence medal is not uncommon for sailors. The France&Germany star was not issued to those in receipt of the Atlantic star, instead a bar was issued to those eligible for both...

 

 

Medals aside USN, the buttons may offer some insight. If possible could we see a picture of them? Seems at least 2 different types, silvered (unusual) & other.  The design, the material (brass or aluminium) and the reverse of these might help 👍 Lastly, if tailor made, there might be a name tag in one of the pockets 🤞

 

tony

 

 

The buttons are all the same if I remember correctly and there are no names in the jacket unfortunately. Also there is no France and Germany star on the top bar, just the 39-45 star, Atlantic star and then Italian star. I have seen on American uniforms before that awards issued during the war are typically worn properly and then the victory award is tacked on later. After finding out the jacket isn't military my best guess is this was either dressed up for a play of some sort or maybe a civilian cruise liner and the veteran wore his ribbons while at work? I don't think it was dressed up for resale since I only paid 30 dollars in an antique store at the time for this piece.

[Farkas]

As I understand it, British Merchant Marine ‘uniform’ was not official or required, there was though definitely a need/purpose in some cases and of course us Brits had rules.

 

Though not for medal ribbon wear it seems, this example is not regulation either...

 

 

MM officers had 2 rows of 4 buttons but also epaulettes.

 

The reason i asked about buttons was we started using aluminium buttons in the early 50’s. If yours are brass they would probably have makers marks on the reverse.

 

🤞 The details may suggest an age supporting the likelihood this is a period veterans jacket.

 

tony

[Terry37]

The thing that jumps out at me is he location of he ribbon bars. They seem to be placed more in he US location than the British. The Royal Navy for a reason I've never been able to find out wear their ribbon bars very high up on he left upper chest. This is not a great picture, being a little blurry, but shows what I am referring to.

 

Terry