Victorian VR Truncheon

[davew]

Hi,

 

I'm new to the site and I hope this is the correct forum for me to post this too. Apologies if not!

 

I have picked up this Victorian truncheon from a local antiques fair as I really liked it. I was just wondering if anyone would be able to tell me anything about it? Things like how old it is, when it might have been used, value, if it was produced for a particular event - would all be really good to know, if possible.

 

 

Thanks,

Davew

[Dave Wilkinson]

I see that no one has responded to you so I will. That said, truncheons are not my speciality. The first thing you need to do, in my opinion is to try to identify the coat of arms. It is not one I recognise. There are "on line" sites which you can refer to under the title "Civic Heraldry". Or alternatively you can possibly consult a reference book at your local public library.

 

Bear in mind that over many years these things have been faked. I'm not suggesting that your example falls into that slot but bear the possibility in mind.

 

Some observations. Aside from the coat of arms there does not seem to be anything exceptional about it in terms of the basic design. That pattern of truncheon was carried by bobbies in the UK right up to the 1990's. The strap looks a recent addition. The canvas cover looks as if it's been fashioned out of a truncheon pocket taken from a pair of police trousers with VR stamped onto it. Why would VR need to be applied to it? Considering its purported age, the paintwork/ finish looks very shiny.

 

Posting a clear close up photo of the coat of arms on here may help. Someone may recognise it.

 

As to is suggested age. Its displaying a "VR" which is indicative of a period prior to 1902 (Queen Victoria).

 

I hope this is helpful.

 

Dave.   

Edited September 24, 2022 by Dave Wilkinson

[Nightbreak]

Welcome to the forum and to truncheon collecting!

If you could perhaps take a close-up picture of the coat of arms, I can work with the motto and heraldic features to figure out which town it's supposed to represent.  Chances are good one of our reference books will have others from that location to compare it to.

 

Andrew

 

 

[davew]

Thanks for your replies Dave and Andrew, much appreciated.

 

I have got a close-up picture of the coat of arms - I hope that it helps and isn't too blurry. If it is please let me know and I will try and take a better one.

 

 

Thanks!

Davew

[Dave Wilkinson]

I can't read the full motto. What does it say? The second word appears to be "enterprise" but I'm struggling with the first.

 

Dave.

Edited September 27, 2022 by Dave Wilkinson

[davew]

Yes that's right, the second word is 'enterprise', and the first word is 'integrity'.

 

 

Thanks,

Davew

[Dave Wilkinson]

I've spent an hour or so trying to identify the Coat of Arms and the motto without success.

 

I've consulted "The Book of Public Arms" by A.C. Fox-Davies published in 1915 and also "Civic Heraldry of England & Wales" by C.W. Scott-Giles published in 1933.

 

The Fox-Davies book consists of 876 pages and shows illustrations for only a small proportion of the entries. There is no index of mottos. So, without carefully examining the written description of over 600 plus coats of arms there is no reasonably quick way of me identifying the arms shown on the truncheon.

 

The Scott-Giles book is easier to refer to with an index of mottos for all the arms. Your motto is not listed nor are the arms illustrated.   

 

I've also looked at the websites dealing with Civic Heraldry (as I assume you also have), in an effort to identify and link the motto with a particular town, but without success. That exact motto is not shown at all on the sites I looked at.

 

I have a much earlier Victorian edition of the Fox-Davies book. I will look at that when I get time on the off chance that your arms may be shown as an illustration, as opposed to just a description. I'll get back to you if I have any success.

 

Dave. 

Edited September 28, 2022 by Dave Wilkinson

[Nightbreak]

It's apparently the coat of arms of the Institute of Directors, a British professional organization founded in 1903, but the arms weren't granted until 1952.  So this appears to be of recent manufacture.

 

https://www.heraldry-wiki.com/heraldrywiki/wiki/Institute_of_Directors

 

 

Edited September 28, 2022 by Nightbreak

[Dave Wilkinson]

In view of what our Canadian friend says, I would suggest that if you have paid any great sum of cash for this item, that you return the stick to whoever you bought it from and ask for your money back. My initial thoughts about it were, it seems correct. If you are going to embark upon collecting truncheons, please do be careful about what you buy. There are some very dishonest people out there. Someone has clearly gone to a considerable length to deceive. Good luck!

 

Dave. 

Edited September 29, 2022 by Dave Wilkinson

[davew]

Thanks very much for all of your efforts in tracking down the origin of this piece! It's a shame that it's a recent production, and I'm glad I didn't pay a large sum for it. I bought it because I liked it, and it does have a fairly good ornamental value. I will be more cautious in future though

 

Thanks again, much appreciated.

 

Davew

[Nightbreak]

You're welcome, Davew.  My commiserations for the result, but this adds to your experience and knowledge in the long run.  And as long as you enjoy it, that's a good thing in itself.

 

Andrew