North Staffordshire dress uniform

[USN]

Good evening gentlemen,

 

I have quite the project on my hands and I thought I would share it here, in a little antique place in San Diego I came across what remains of the dress uniform of acting Lieutenant Colonel John H. Ridgway, Mr. Ridgway served in South Africa, Ireland and during the first world War until his death at the battle of scarpe in 1917. He was also awarded the distinguished service order in 1916 during the battle of the somme although I cannot seem to find the write up for it. I will be having the coat sent off to more talented hands to repair the collar and the rest will likely be up to me. As always I welcome and thoughts, opinions or advice one this piece.

 

Thank you

 

 

 

 

 

I have already started the work by removing those awful shoulder pads which unfortunately were glued onto the shoulders and am slowly working the adhesive off of it without damaging the uniform itself. On a side not there also does appear to be loops sewn onto the breast ro accommodate a small medalbar which I believe to be the one in a photo I was able to find of him. Also the signature on the uniform matches another unit photograph which he signed not long before his death.

 

 

 

 

 

[Gordon Craig]

USN,

 

Quite a task you have set for yourself.  It should be a nice addition to your collection once it is restored to its former glory.  In the photo you provided of this type of tunic he appears to be wearing the two Boer War medals.  Reference to these rolls should tell you what campaign bars he is entitled to.  Good luck with the tunic and I'd like to see it when it is completed.

 

Regards,

 

Gordon

[USN]

10 hours ago, Gordon Craig said:

USN,

 

Quite a task you have set for yourself.  It should be a nice addition to your collection once it is restored to its former glory.  In the photo you provided of this type of tunic he appears to be wearing the two Boer War medals.  Reference to these rolls should tell you what campaign bars he is entitled to.  Good luck with the tunic and I'd like to see it when it is completed.

 

Regards,

 

Gordon

I will definitely be posting progress photos and as far as the medals go I'm hoping that I'll be lucky enough that someone who owns his awards will come around some day.

[Farkas]

Hello USN,

Good save! It doesn’t look like it would have lasted much longer without you.

 

I’m in the UK and i guess we get different google results to the US so here are a couple of things i found, though you may have seen them already.

 

👇 first there are a few documents from the Commonwealth War Graves Commission website.

 

——

 

 

 

—-

 

 

 

—-

 

 

There was also this nice little local piece about him which actually might come in useful if you are looking up his records...

 

In particular, there is a reference to his service beginning in the South Staffs before he transferred to North Staffs.

 

I’ve got three 1940’s Staffordshire Yeomanry uniforms, it took me a while to work out what they were as the Staffs regiments all use the ‘Staffordshire Knot” and their similar badges have changed over the years.

The earlier picture of him in dress uniform looks to me to be Victorian South Staffordshires, the collar badge is i think South Staffs worn upto 1898ish.

 

Your tunic definitely has North Staffs buttons and i’m guessing has collar badges more like this 👇 with fleur-de-lis above the knot?

 

I also found this which only mentions from Captain onwards as does the medal roll you’ve pictured.

So i wonder if your tunic was made when he transferred to, or was perhaps recalled and joined, the North Staffs? It is labelled Captain, mine are mostly labelled (2nd) Lieutenant regardless of the rank reached.

 

Good luck with it all.

 

cheers

tony

 

 

[USN]

Most of the graves registration papers are new information, but the biography I was able to find before. I do believe his collar devices are the South staffordshire style unless the fleur de lis is a separate piece and its just missing. 

[Gordon Craig]

USN,

 

According to the Anglo Boer War site your man served with the Fourth Battalion South Staffordshire Regiment and was awarded the QSA and the KSA as shown in your photos.  I didn't search the QSA role to see what bars he had been awarded.  I'll leave that up to you.

 

Regards,

 

Gordon 

[USN]

Looking over the tunic again, mine does have the appropriate north staffordshire collar insignia.

[USN]

I don't suppose anyone would happen to have a source for proper replacement shoulder boards and tresse? I cannot seem to find any on the market but my sources for these types of uniforms are quite limited as these aren't my main area of collecting.

[Guards Armoured]

Did you manage to rescue the three-ply shoulder boards that came with the tunic? They are the right kind, I believe, and possibly original to the tunic. All you would need then are a pair of rank stars (pips) for each and a screw-post button.

Modern versions can be purchased at military tailors but are quite pricey (and too shiny for my liking, due to the modern materials used):

https://www.samuelbrothers.co.uk/shop/mess-dress-all/mess-dress-epaulettes/male-gold-3-ply-officers-shoulder-boards-ceremonial-mess/

[USN]

5 hours ago, Guards Armoured said:

Did you manage to rescue the three-ply shoulder boards that came with the tunic? They are the right kind, I believe, and possibly original to the tunic. All you would need then are a pair of rank stars (pips) for each and a screw-post button.

Modern versions can be purchased at military tailors but are quite pricey (and too shiny for my liking, due to the modern materials used):

https://www.samuelbrothers.co.uk/shop/mess-dress-all/mess-dress-epaulettes/male-gold-3-ply-officers-shoulder-boards-ceremonial-mess/

Unfortunately the shoulder boards that were on it are Styrofoam so I do not believe those would be period correct haha

[Farkas]

I wouldn’t give up on your boards yet.

I don’t know the technical term but there are 5 ‘curves’ on your boards.

They are at least the correct design for yours I believe...

 

These 2 are the same period 👇

This one is Royal Artillery...

 

and this one is Royal Engineers

 

This is a later Royal Fusiliers from 1962

 

As you can see there are many varieties.

The shoulders have been altered on yours but the chances of someone randomly adding the correct style board are surely low.

 

They should be individual rope pieces though all attached together securely,   with a little movement in places.

Made possibly with a shiny coating originally. It may have worn off the front but still visible on the reverse or elsewhere.  

 

When you say they are styrofoam do you mean they are all one shaped piece or is it inside? Any pics?

 

tony

[USN]

5 hours ago, Farkas said:

I wouldn’t give up on your boards yet.

I don’t know the technical term but there are 5 ‘curves’ on your boards.

They are at least the correct design for yours I believe...

 

These 2 are the same period 👇

This one is Royal Artillery...

 

and this one is Royal Engineers

 

This is a later Royal Fusiliers from 1962

 

As you can see there are many varieties.

The shoulders have been altered on yours but the chances of someone randomly adding the correct style board are surely low.

 

They should be individual rope pieces though all attached together securely,   with a little movement in places.

Made possibly with a shiny coating originally. It may have worn off the front but still visible on the reverse or elsewhere.  

 

When you say they are styrofoam do you mean they are all one shaped piece or is it inside? Any pics?

 

tony

They were all one shaped piece, definitely not anything that belonged on the uniform and I'm pretty sure I threw them and the black pads away already.

[USN]

I took a few more detailed photos before I sent this off to get the collar repaired, I think I will have to stripe off all of the gold braiding. It doesn't look like any of it is original to the uniform.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Farkas]

Hello USN,

 

On 03/03/2023 at 00:35, USN said:

I don't suppose anyone would happen to have a source for proper replacement shoulder boards and tresse? I cannot seem to find any on the market but my sources for these types of uniforms are quite limited as these aren't my main area of collecting.

 

Apart from matching the liining , it’s very do-able. 
The issue you would face being in the US is the postage from the UK, both accumulated cost of separate bits and a lack of willingness to ship overseas in some cases.
It’s a good thing you’re doing and I’m happy to help if you will agree to it.

 

The shoulder boards…

On 03/03/2023 at 12:03, Guards Armoured said:

Did you manage to rescue the three-ply shoulder boards that came with the tunic? They are the right kind, I believe, and possibly original to the tunic. All you would need then are a pair of rank stars (pips) for each and a screw-post button.

Modern versions can be purchased at military tailors but are quite pricey (and too shiny for my liking, due to the modern materials used):

 

I’ve got a weathered pair that would be suitable in my opinion.

I’ve actually got the 2 buttons you need and know where to get the screw posts for them.

Toughest is the pips but I’m pretty sure I’ve already got most if not all of the 6 vintage bullion pips you’ll need if restoring it to it’s rank of captain. I can find a different combination for whatever rank of his you choose.

 

 

 

At the time backing the boards like this was usual

- - - - 

 

The lace for collar and cuffs…

what you need is relatively cheap at about £10-13 per metre.

In my opinion the ‘lace’ you have may be original?

 

but it was the cheaper version at the time and if replaced you could upgrade 

 

The cord comes in various thicknesses but again relatively cheap per metre.

 

 

Just need to work out what types and how much of each but it is available.

 

— - - 

 

The boards/pips/buttons owe me bout £90 and after getting the buttons done the cost is gonna be £100.

The lace and piping gonna be £20-30.

I guess postage about 20-30 also 🤷‍♂️

- - - -

I don’t know if the cost sounds good or bad? but I don’t know how there is a cheaper route.

tony

[Trooper_D]

What an interesting project, USN! I hope that you manage to secure all the right pieces to bring the tunic back to something near its prime.

 

On 21/02/2023 at 11:25, USN said:

 Also the signature on the uniform matches another unit photograph which he signed not long before his death.

 

On past experience, I would have thought that, rather than this being Ridgway's signature, this is where the tailor has handwritten his name so that it doesn't get confused with other tunics they were making at the time. It is still the practice, today, that tailors write their client's name on the label they sew into the garment they have made.

 

Further to the above, having had another look at the 'signature' on the tunic, I wouldn't have said it is particularly similar to that on the group photo (a very different 'R', for example).

 

 

 

On 26/02/2023 at 03:33, Farkas said:

Your tunic definitely has North Staffs buttons and i’m guessing has collar badges more like this 👇 with fleur-de-lis above the knot?

 

A pedantic point, perhaps, but those are the Prince of Wales's feathers rather than a fleur-de-lis about the knot.

 

 

 

 

[Farkas]

On 15/03/2023 at 18:31, Trooper_D said:

A pedantic point, perhaps, but those are the Prince of Wales's feathers rather than a fleur-de-lis about the knot.

I don’t call that pedantic… ‘twas a shocking mistake…

I’m Welsh!!

Well done Trooper 😁

 

🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🇬🇧🇬🇧

 

Edited March 17, 2023 by Farkas
Mistake

[Trooper_D]

2 hours ago, Farkas said:

I don’t call that pedantic… ‘twas a shocking mistake…

I’m Welsh!!

 

Twenty press-ups!

Now!

😉

[Farkas]

I’ll stop going on after this, promise!!

 

I’ve dug out the buttons, I’ve got two pairs as it happens…

 

 

 

& I’ve had a look at those button posts, only £5 for a pair, there is a little ‘cup’ and the buttons fix with bit of solder or good glue.

 

 

As I said before,

I’m happy to help if you want.

 

tony 

[USN]

On 19/03/2023 at 15:40, Farkas said:

I’ll stop going on after this, promise!!

 

I’ve dug out the buttons, I’ve got two pairs as it happens…

 

 

 

& I’ve had a look at those button posts, only £5 for a pair, there is a little ‘cup’ and the buttons fix with bit of solder or good glue.

 

 

As I said before,

I’m happy to help if you want.

 

tony 

I'll gladly take you up on some of those items! Also I dug the old boards out of the trash and I do think these were the originals, theres just one issue. They are completely drowned in gold paint to a point that I originally thought that they were 100% rubber but peeling some weird backing off I think they are period boards.

[Farkas]

That’s good news.

👍👍

[USN]

I don't suppose anyone has seen or knows of the location of any of Mr. Ridgways medals do they? Maybe they've popped up an online auction at some point or they're tucked away in a collection?

[USN]

I was able to find a small snippet from a newspaper article likely made shortly after his death. Still working on the tunic itself.

[TracA]

On 07/05/2024 at 21:37, USN said:

I don't suppose anyone has seen or knows of the location of any of Mr. Ridgways medals do they? Maybe they've popped up an online auction at some point or they're tucked away in a collection?

Hello USN,

 

I am just seeing this thread. Have you tried posting this question on the British Medals Forum? You will have to register to use the site, but registration is free.

 

Tracy

[USN]

Just now, TracA said:

Hello USN,

 

I am just seeing this thread. Have you tried posting this question on the British Medals Forum? You will have to register to use the site, but registration is free.

 

Tracy

Unfortunately I am unable to make an account at the moment, I'm currently deployed and using ships wifi services so I don't think the website trusts my connection.