Kriegsmarine Admiral Posted October 7, 2023 Posted October 7, 2023 Hello, I pressume the Order of Brilliant Jade also had 9 classes. Can anyone tell me which class would the "Order of the Jade on the white neck-ribbon with blue-red ribbon" be? Thanks!
No one Posted October 7, 2023 Posted October 7, 2023 Dear Kriegsmarine Admiral, 5th class if like this one: See here for more: Yours sincerely, No one 1
Kriegsmarine Admiral Posted October 8, 2023 Author Posted October 8, 2023 (edited) 11 hours ago, No one said: Dear Kriegsmarine Admiral, 5th class if like this one: See here for more: Yours sincerely, No one Thank you No one. I don't have a photo of the award. Just the name with the colours of the ribbon like I wrote above. Do you have the photos of all 9 classes of the Order of Brilliant Jade with the ribbons visible? I only saw the photo of all 9 classes zoomed in on the centre of the medal on the thread you linked. Edited October 8, 2023 by Kriegsmarine Admiral
No one Posted October 8, 2023 Posted October 8, 2023 Dear Kriegsmarine Admiral, If I may, it's " 采玉勲章 Order of Brilliant Jade". This one "采玉大勳章" is another order: Order of Brilliant Jade - Wikipedia , it's a bit confusing. As for the colors description, the first one is the central one, then towards the hedges 1 / 2-1-2 / 3-2-1-2-3. I haven't seen a 4th class ribbon, just the description. Yours sincerely, No one 1
Kriegsmarine Admiral Posted October 8, 2023 Author Posted October 8, 2023 Thank you very much! So, would the 5th class normally be awarded to someone with Colonel or Captain (Navy) rank? Because the person that I have received it on 18 November 1937 when he was a Captain (Navy), one rank lower than Rear Admiral.
No one Posted October 8, 2023 Posted October 8, 2023 Dear Kriegsmarine Admiral, " So, would the 5th class normally be awarded to someone with Colonel or Captain (Navy) rank? " I don't know. Although I have the lists of awardees and dates in Chinese, I don't have any for November 18, 1937. Some names, phonetically, sound German: Bescherman / Battenbach / Weilter / Retzman etc. The color of the name matches the date. Here are the dates: -4th class: 1-1-1937 / 19-1-1937 / 26-3-1937 / 5-5-1937 / 1-6-1937 / 10-10-1937 -5th class: 1-1-1937 / 26-3-1937 / 2-4-1937 / 5-5-1937 / 1-6-1937 / 23-8-1937 / 10-10-1937 Do you have the award document or any document? Yours sincerely, No one
Kriegsmarine Admiral Posted October 9, 2023 Author Posted October 9, 2023 I have this document where the award is listed at the bottom. The officer who was awarded the order was Walter Georg Lohmann. It's possible the date written here is the German approval date, rather than the Chinese award date.
No one Posted October 12, 2023 Posted October 12, 2023 (edited) Dear Kriegsmarine Admiral, I can't read/understand your document (except for the date 18-11-1937). I can't find anything. Has he served in China? Do you have a number for the awarded medal? Yours sincerely, No one Edited October 12, 2023 by No one
Kriegsmarine Admiral Posted October 12, 2023 Author Posted October 12, 2023 7 hours ago, No one said: Dear Kriegsmarine Admiral, I can't read/understand your document (except for the date 18-11-1937). I can't find anything. Has he served in China? Do you have a number for the awarded medal? Yours sincerely, No one The text in the bottom two rows says in German: "Chinesischer Jade-Orden am weißen Hals-band mit blau-rotem Kante" (Chinese Jade Order on a white neck ribbon with blue-red edge). He did not serve in China. I don't have the number for the awarded medal.
No one Posted October 12, 2023 Posted October 12, 2023 (edited) Dear Kriegsmarine Admiral, Good news, I think I found him: Lohmann 5th class #90 10-10-1937. Yours sincerely, No one Edited October 12, 2023 by No one 1
Kriegsmarine Admiral Posted October 12, 2023 Author Posted October 12, 2023 2 hours ago, No one said: Dear Kriegsmarine Admiral, Good news, I think I found him: Lohmann 5th class #90 10-10-1937. Yours sincerely, No one Great! Thank you very much! 10 October 1937 is the Chinese award date and 18 November 1937 is the German approval date.
No one Posted October 14, 2023 Posted October 14, 2023 Dear Kriegsmarine Admiral, I found the 5th class #91 awarded to 福朗克 (Fú lǎngkè) : Frank, October 10, 1937. So I assume Lohmann received the same set. Yours sincerely, No one 1
Kriegsmarine Admiral Posted February 23 Author Posted February 23 On 14/10/2023 at 14:30, No one said: Yours sincerely, No one Hello, Can you perhaps find Erich Raeder among the recipients of the Order of Brilliant Jade? He was awarded the Order of the Brilliant Jade on the White Ribbon with Red Edge. Is that the 2nd Class? Perhaps he was awarded it sometime in 1937, but I'm not sure. Can you find the award date and the exact class he was awarded? Thanks
No one Posted February 24 Posted February 24 (edited) Dear Kriegsmarine Admiral, "Can you perhaps find Erich Raeder among the recipients of the Order of Brilliant Jade?" The war criminal convicted at the Nuremberg trials? The only German, who was awarded "采玉大勳章" (in 1936), I can find is Johannes Friedrich Leopold von Seeckt who was head the German military mission in China. As for "采玉勳章" 2nd class: Raeder, in Chinese is writen, "雷德爾" but the only names I can find are: - number # 69 "賴德 / Ryder" attributed October 10, 1937. - number # 81 "曼德爾 / Màndéěr / Mandel " attributed October 10, 1938. Yours sincerely, No one Edited February 24 by No one 1
Kriegsmarine Admiral Posted February 24 Author Posted February 24 13 minutes ago, No one said: The war criminal convicted at the Nuremberg trials? Yes, among other things. But in the 1930s he was the Commander in Chief of the German Navy. His full name is Erich Hans Albert Raeder. Could he be this "Ryder" #69? 雷德爾 translated to English is Rydell. And 賴德 can translated as both Rydell and Ryder. Both translations are very close to "Raeder". What is the full entry for #69 in the award roll?
No one Posted February 24 Posted February 24 (edited) Dear Kriegsmarine Admiral, "What is the full entry for #69 in the award roll?": "69 賴德 1937.10.10" I don't think 賴德 / Ryder is for Raeder. 埃里希·雷德爾 - 維基百科，自由的百科全書 Did Raeder have any involvement with the Chinese Navy or China? Yours sincerely, No one Edited February 24 by No one
Kriegsmarine Admiral Posted February 24 Author Posted February 24 2 minutes ago, No one said: Did Raeder have any involvement with the Chinese Navy or China? He did not have any direct involvement. But he was the Commander in Chief of the German Navy, and perhaps a Chinese Navy Delegation visited Germany in 1937. It was common for the high ranking admirals of the Navy to be awarded with foreign decorations. The other officer you helped me with in this thread (Lohmann) was also a German Naval Officer who had no involvement with China, but he was nevertheless awarded the Order of Brilliant Jade 5th Class on the same date as # 69 賴德 - 10 October 1937. Do you think this is a coincidence? Please answer me this question: According to his Personal Files (see the photo below), Erich Raeder was awarded the Order of the Brilliant Jade on the White Ribbon with Red Edging. Is that the 2nd Class?
No one Posted February 24 Posted February 24 Dear Kriegsmarine Admiral, "Please answer me this question: According to his Personal Files (see the photo below), Erich Raeder was awarded the Order of the Brilliant Jade on the White Ribbon with Red Edging. Is that the 2nd Class?" Yes, it is. "Do you think this is a coincidence?" I, honestly, don't know. The names don't match, that's all I can say. I can't find 雷德爾. Yours sincerely, No one 1
Kriegsmarine Admiral Posted February 24 Author Posted February 24 2 minutes ago, No one said: Yes, it is. Thank you for the confirmation! 2 minutes ago, No one said: I, honestly, don't know. The names don't match, that's all I can say. I can't find 雷德爾. I understand. But do you think they could've made a mistake? And that they wrote his surname wrong? 1
No one Posted February 25 Posted February 25 Dear Kriegsmarine Admiral, "But do you think they could've made a mistake? And that they wrote his surname wrong?" May be, I really don't know. We are stepping into the realm of speculation. I gave you all I could find. Yours sincerely, No one 1
Kriegsmarine Admiral Posted February 25 Author Posted February 25 1 minute ago, No one said: Dear Kriegsmarine Admiral, "But do you think they could've made a mistake? And that they wrote his surname wrong?" May be, I really don't know. We are stepping into the realm of speculation. I gave you all I could find. Yours sincerely, No one Of course, I was just wondering. Thank you very much once again!
Kriegsmarine Admiral Posted February 27 Author Posted February 27 On 25/02/2025 at 01:25, No one said: Yours sincerely, No one Hello No one, Can you check if any other Germans were awarded the Order of Brilliant Jade (any class) on 10 October 1937? For now, we know two Germans were awarded on this date: Lohmann (5th Class) and Ryder (2nd Class). Thanks
No one Posted February 27 Posted February 27 (edited) Dear Kriegsmarine Admiral, I'm not sure 100%, the names are in Chinese (phonetically). - (?) Retzman / 4th class 10-10-1937 - (?) Battenbach / 5th class 10-10-1937 I will look for other names this weekend (it's time-consuming). Yours sincerely, No one Edited February 27 by No one 1
Kriegsmarine Admiral Posted February 27 Author Posted February 27 (edited) 32 minutes ago, No one said: Dear Kriegsmarine Admiral, I'm not sure 100%, the names are in Chinese (phonetically). - (?) Retzman / 4th class 10-10-1937 - (?) Battenbach / 5th class 10-10-1937 I will look for other names this weekend (it's time-consuming). Yours sincerely, No one Very interesting. There was a German naval officer called Karl Bartenbach. And also a German naval officer called Heinrich Retzmann. It's very unfortunate that the first names of the recipients are not stated in the award rolls. That would make things so much easier. Edited February 27 by Kriegsmarine Admiral 1
No one Posted February 28 Posted February 28 Dear Kriegsmarine Admiral, It is likely that you have the correct names. What would make things so much easier is if the name were in the Roman alphabet and not in Chinese characters! I'm being facetious. Yours sincerely, No one 1
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