Victoria Cross original, copy or replica?

[Drew]

  

 

Do these two images show an original VC and a copy moulded from that original?

 

If it has been moulded from the original, what are the tell tale signs of the copy?

 

Could the copy ever have been mistaken for a cast original or a replica by the curator of a military museum?

 

 

Thanking you in advance for your expertise.

[Harry the Mole]

Aside from the fact that the pictures are so poor to be of any use, there is no indication of the size of the medal. All copies of the VC have differences than the genuine VC, and if you know what to look for the differences are very obvious. Most of the modern copies are - to be quite honest - absolute junk. They are often die-struck and bronze coated instead of cast in solid bronze, and the face of the Lion looks more like the face of a Chinese dragon with some of them having legs that look like balloons. Even the Hancocks made replica is 2mm smaller than their original medal. Tailors copies occasionally crop up on fleabay, and just recently I was able to obtain a circa 1890's tailors copy for a mere £26 on there. It was one that just slipped through the net and other bidders didn't realise what it was. There is absolutely no way you could pass off a replica as the original, as all issued VC's are accounted for - with the exception of just a couple that went missing/stolen.

 

Cheers,

            Steve

[Harry the Mole]

Having looked closer at the images of the above VC, I can see that it is a copy. If you look at the inner border where it reaches the tail of the Lion, you will notice that the border does not continue to the rear body of the Lion. On an original - and some copies - the border continues down to touch the body of the Lion. Here is the very early tailors copy that I picked up on eBay. In November 2019, SPINK sold two of these medals named to Boer War veterans. One sold for £950, and the other for £1,000. My tailors copy is slightly larger than an original medal, but it is cast in bronze and has beautifully sharp detail.

 

Cheers,

            Steve

[Harry the Mole]

I find this to be one of the problems with possibly ALL militaria forums. You get people coming on and asking for help, they get their wish - and then they cannot even be bothered to reply. Most of my time has been spent on War Relics Forum - where I was a paying member for the best part of 13 years with over 5,000 posts, but in recent years the forum has lost its lustre. Too many people asking for help and not contributing, and too many members reading posts without commenting and joining in the discussion. I am tempted to become a paying member on here, but would I just be supporting yet another forum that suffers from the same problems?

 

Cheers,

            Steve

Edited December 8, 2023 by Harry the Mole

[TracA]

Hi Steve,

 

I've been on this forum since September of last year and this March I decided to become a patron (completely voluntary). This is the only military themed forum in which I participate, but I do participate in a numismatic forum.

 

I guess we're always going to have the "fly-by-nights" who are just looking for authentication/price check. They will, as you say, come and go. I participate in the Japan section of this forum, and I both ask questions and try to contribute something positive. I must say that for me personally, the active members in the Japan thread have taken my collecting to new heights with their wealth of information and willingness to share it. I see the same great contributions on other threads here on which I don't post (because quite frankly I don't have anything to contribute) but which I do read. 

 

I definitely find this forum of great value to me and my collection. I say, stick around for a while longer.

 

Just my two cents.

 

All the best,

 

Tracy

[Farkas]

On 08/12/2023 at 10:19, Harry the Mole said:

I find this to be one of the problems with possibly ALL militaria forums. You get people coming on and asking for help, they get their wish - and then they cannot even be bothered to reply. Most of my time has been spent on War Relics Forum - where I was a paying member for the best part of 13 years with over 5,000 posts, but in recent years the forum has lost its lustre. Too many people asking for help and not contributing, and too many members reading posts without commenting and joining in the discussion. I am tempted to become a paying member on here, but would I just be supporting yet another forum that suffers from the same problems?

 

Cheers,

            Steve

 

On 08/12/2023 at 19:07, TracA said:

Hi Steve,

 

I've been on this forum since September of last year and this March I decided to become a patron (completely voluntary). This is the only military themed forum in which I participate, but I do participate in a numismatic forum.

 

I guess we're always going to have the "fly-by-nights" who are just looking for authentication/price check. They will, as you say, come and go. I participate in the Japan section of this forum, and I both ask questions and try to contribute something positive. I must say that for me personally, the active members in the Japan thread have taken my collecting to new heights with their wealth of information and willingness to share it. I see the same great contributions on other threads here on which I don't post (because quite frankly I don't have anything to contribute) but which I do read. 

 

I definitely find this forum of great value to me and my collection. I say, stick around for a while longer.

 

Just my two cents.

 

All the best,

 

Tracy

 

Hi both,

I think you’re both spot on, some issues I’ve noticed myself. It can be uncomfortable highlighting issues but there’s no progress otherwise, so they need addressing.

As you’re both here, so to speak, I’d like to share my thoughts with you.

 

First

Steve, your reply was posted 30November, Drew visited 2December, it’s now the 9th… so he saw your considerable replies and off he went, so that’s annoying! & unless he gets back into this chat to correct me…to me that’s someone who joined only to see what ‘we’ made of something dodgey. Something that he hopes to pass off as ‘good’ on ebay or similar. That’s the worst and a somewhat familiar scenario.

 

The other scenario I see is the person who posts gets no reply. When I notice these posts with no reply, some years old, I often wonder why. They are/were sometimes simple to reply to, even if they are questions that can’t be simply answered or ask nothing… there is no reply. When you look at their profile you see they stopped visiting shortly after, which is a shame.

 

My own experience has evolved.

When I eventually got a smart phone and truly found the internet, I found the GMIC and browsed without joining.

 

When I joined I had so much ‘stuff’… stuff I wanted to show off, stuff I was proud of, stuff I wanted help with and stuff I thought other people would enjoy.

It was a no brainer that it was appropriate to contribute before asking to make withdrawals so to speak but it was hard to do so. 
One problem was I didn’t know the ‘rules’, I just butted in when I didn’t have anything like the same level of knowledge and what I found interesting to say/show to add was not always welcome.

 

I stopped posting eventually, I felt I wasn’t really adding in any real way, I found twitter and got the interaction I realised I wanted on there.

 

Fast forward a few years and maybe 2 years ago I found myself back. I was banned on twitter for stating facts and sharing my opinion… it turns out that makes me a nazi, who knew eh? 🤷‍♂️
Anyway I came back on here and stayed.

 

 

*** I’ll finish this later, I just managed to lose a shitload I’d spent ages writing 😡 so gonna leave it there for now… ****

tony 🍻

 

One last thing Steve, I see you were Royal Artillery so if you give me a day I’ll post some pictures of this fine selection I got recently, all old arty, loads of different Victorian and good less common types in there…

 

and some nice pics of these two fellas

1881 pattern volunteers - Captain

1891 pattern regulars - lieutenant 

 

 

tony

🍻

 

[Harry the Mole]

Hi Tony,

 

I hear what you are saying, but it doesn't ease the sense of frustration when you try to help someone and they cannot even bother to reply.

 

Nice buttons by the way... during my time in the Army Cadets (252 Hulme Cadet Bty RA, 1963- 1969) we had the old wartime BD uniforms with brass buttons & cap badges, whitened lanyards, and blancoe'd belts & gaiters... and I loved every minute of it, But the staybrite junk I had in the regulars was horrendous. No blanco either, belt & gaiters were done with black boot polish! I was a cloud puncher by the way. First on the Bofor's LA40/70, and then the trials unit for Rapier before returning to NI for one last tour of ops in 1974 before leaving the army.

 

Cheers,

            Steve

[Farkas]

21 hours ago, Harry the Mole said:

Hi Tony,

 

I hear what you are saying, but it doesn't ease the sense of frustration when you try to help someone and they cannot even bother to reply.

 

Nice buttons by the way... during my time in the Army Cadets (252 Hulme Cadet Bty RA, 1963- 1969) we had the old wartime BD uniforms with brass buttons & cap badges, whitened lanyards, and blancoe'd belts & gaiters... and I loved every minute of it, But the staybrite junk I had in the regulars was horrendous. No blanco either, belt & gaiters were done with black boot polish! I was a cloud puncher by the way. First on the Bofor's LA40/70, and then the trials unit for Rapier before returning to NI for one last tour of ops in 1974 before leaving the army.

 

Cheers,

            Steve

Cloud puncher!

I like it! A new one to me… 😊

 

On a  Bofors? Showing your age 😁

 

///-:///::://

 

Last thought on the forum…

it’s lost traffic compared to before, as someone said to me, we’re not getting any younger and sadly we lost a few friends/members during covid.

 

I can only report though, that every time I log on, I have plenty to keep me interested, I have friends I talk to.

The optional patronage was only introduced recently to keep the site advert free and to keep it operating, it is free unless you choose otherwise at some point.

Don’t let the time wasters put you off 👍. 
 

cheers

tony 🍻