Collector's query

[svapr]

Hello everyone,

I have a question for you, or such a dilemma. What do you think is more important from a collector's point of view: the Order of the Bath or the Order of St. Michael and George (at the rank of knight commander)? Thank you for answer.

[Gordon Craig]

SVAPR,

Isn't that an individuals point of view?  We all collect from our own point of view.  We, as collectors, would not all rate one of the above orders with the same amount of interest.  I would not rate one of these before the other.  Their only interest to me would be when they are included in a group.  It would be interesting to see what others have to say.

Regards,

Gordon

[Farkas]

Hi Gents,

I’ve not considered either previously and thought I’d have a quick look into them and see what I thought…

 

Myself, from a purely aesthetic standpoint I definitely prefer the look of both pieces of the Order of St. Michael and George

Then, if I am reading things correctly, there is a difference in who gets it and why.

It is often the UK Government that decides someone is to be put forward for the Order of the Bath, and therefore award, in my opinion, can be politically driven.

In comparison, the Monarch themself decides who is awarded the Order of St. Michael and George and it is far more exclusive a ‘club’

At the monarch's pleasure, though typically awarded for extraordinary non-military service in a foreign country or for services to foreign and Commonwealth affairs

Though under King charles iii a politically involved Monarchy is to be the new norm, I would still give more significance to receipt of the Order of St. Michael and George than the Order of the Bath in simple terms.

 

5 hours ago, Gordon Craig said:

Their only interest to me would be when they are included in a group.

Me too, or at least knowing the identity of the recipient.

 

6 hours ago, svapr said:

What do you think is more important from a collector's point of view

Every way I look at it…👇 this one.

 

& Its worth noting that, due to this image👇, of an angel standing on a slave (allegedly, being a big no-no… combined with a new ‘woke’ King… it may not be around much longer.

 

tony 🍻

[Marcon1]

& Its worth noting that, due to this image👇, of an angel standing on a slave (allegedly, being a big no-no… combined with a new ‘woke’ King… it may not be around much longer.

 

That is NOT a slave St. Michael is standing on but SATAN.

 

Marcon1.

Edited June 2 by Marcon1

[Megan]

I prefer the Order of the Bath - it has such a fascinating history, beginning in 1725 as a single-class order with the intention of providing an additional lesser award to the Order of the Garter, being expanded to 3 classes and civil and military divisions in 1815. The original insignia was retained as the civil version and a wholly-new design applied to the military division - no mere addition of a few swords here.

 

The military division has a cross with lions between the arms and requires great care in wearing or display - the obverse and reverse are almost identical except that on the obverse you see the lions' faces and on the reverse their backsides! More than one museum has been caught out... I recall being in conversation with the director of a national museum and discovering that the display there had the poor lions displaying their rear ends (I won't mention which museum to spare their blushes, but I've never seen such a flurry as the display cases were opened and the badges flipped!).

 

And of course this is close to my heart as my father was a Knight Commander in the Civil Division. Unfortuately his insignia was taken in a burglary, GRR.

 

Note that the Bath, these days, is not political but more of a career award - the Civil Division being awarded to senior civil servants and the Military one to senior officers in the armed forces.

[Farkas]

On 02/06/2024 at 04:36, Marcon1 said:

& Its worth noting that, due to this image👇, of an angel standing on a slave (allegedly, being a big no-no… combined with a new ‘woke’ King… it may not be around much longer.

 

That is NOT a slave St. Michael is standing on but SATAN.

 

Marcon1.

👆 Quite right 👍

 

Following the overdose of ‘Mr Floyd’ the depiction of a white man standing on a chained black satan was enough to propel the BASW, British Association of Social Workers into ‘social justice warrior’ mode..,  

https://www.voice-online.co.uk/news/uk-news/2020/07/02/calls-grow-for-royal-honour-to-be-redesigned-over-offensive-image/

 

Cheers

tony 🍻

 

 

 

 

[Marcon1]

....

Edited June 4 by Marcon1
wrong thread.

[Megan]

I find it offensive that any human being should be equated with Satan. Sinners we may be but not THAT bad!