Imperial Russia Life-Guards Cuirassier Badge

[Ramblinfarms]

What do you all think of this one?

[Ramblinfarms]

What do you all think of this one?

[Ramblinfarms]

One more

[Ramblinfarms]

Any comments, Guys?

[Ramblinfarms]

Any comments, Guys?

This photo comes with the badge, and is claimed to be the former badge owner wearing it. No iron clad documentation that it's a real group, though. Can anyone ID the unit?

[Eugene]

The badge looks like modern copy

[Ramblinfarms]

Please tell me why you come to that conclusion. Do you have an original to compare attributes with? The seller guarantees it is pre-1917 manufacture, so I can get my money back if I can show him why it is a repro. Thanks.

[Ramblinfarms]

I thought I'd boot this one back to the top of the forum. Anyone have any comments? I still don't have it in hand (3 weeks and counting) , but it looks good to me in comparison to the reference books. Made by Kortman? It's coming from Dmitry Gurevich of Level 60 Trading Co, Boston, MA. Have the twins heard of this guy?

[GeorgeCL]

Hi again,

I also dont like this badge..

Bad details in the background and the lettering is not sharp.

Also the pinning on the reverse looks a little thin..

Pins are usually a thicker gauge tight to the holes.

George

[Ramblinfarms]

Hi George:

I wish I actually had the Badge rather than just the photos so I could go over it more carefully. So you think the wire on the cyphers should be a heavier gauge? What do you mean by "bad details in the background"? I, m not sure about the lettering. Could be the scanner and the reflection. The lettering should be crisp and sharp, correct?

[GeorgeCL]

Yes, Could be the scan or camera used in photo the piece.

I think this guy also sells on ebay.? Changed his ID a few times.

Pairs up photos with badges.

I'll try to get some photos of a few of my pieces to show the pins.

Right now they are at the bank, I havent retreaved my stuff yet.

been away on vacation for a month.

George

[Ramblinfarms]

The Guy seems okay at first glance. Same ebay ID for 6 years with several thousand positives and 2 negatives. A member over at WAF said he sold him a fake Para Helmet and only got half his money back, but other than that, no one seems to say anything bad about him. He is in Boston, but came to the US from Russia in 1990 to attend university. He has a partner/picker he works with who is in Russia.

I wish the badge would get here. (Maybe he has to wait till they make him another one?! )

[GeorgeCL]

I wish you the best..

Just my opinion:

Stay away from this dealer:

http://cgi.ebay.com/rare-MILITARY-RUSSIAN-...1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/WW1-WWI-RUSSIAN-AIRFOR...1QQcmdZViewItem

Of course just my opinion.

Everytime I ask some professional, Expert is Imperial russian uniforms, Well known.

They have told me the items a muesum copies of messed with originals..

After the communist rule fell. The museums lost funding and started illegally selling of items. and making up items in stock houses and selling as originals..

Cloth items the easiest to fake ie; 3 reich.

metal badges weather silver, gold or bronze. Have been popping up regularly.

I have seen many RARE badges listed and selling only to have the same seller list another a couple months later..You would be lucky to find 1 in a lifetime of some of these.

Back in the 70's there was a surge of Imperial russian badges hit the market..Now these show nice patina.

You will also notice on ebay alot of nice enamel badges offered as original with damaged enamel,

this done to suggest age I guess. But FAKES anyway.

I have a, THANK GOD, small group of fakes I'll post for comparison.

George

If these were original they would have been snapped up months ago. But they just keep relisting.

[Ramblinfarms]

Thanks George, I see what you mean!!!

I have seen both of these sites. The first one made me very leery for some reason. Maybe collector's survival instinct? He had one regimental badge for sale that I had the opportunity to compare to a real one that was in a NY Auction House Sale Catalogue. When you had them side by side, you could see it was a fake.

Where or who do you think are reputable Dealers, collectors who are willing to sell or trade? Ebay has always made me very nervous!!

I do think my badge from Manion's is real, but I don't think Manion's knows much, if anything, about Imperial Russian. (I have some friends who work there, and it is 20 minute drive from my office.)

Have you dealt with Dmitry Markov in New York?

I have never seen Dmitry Gurevich list a regimental badge before. He usually has high $$$ Faberge and Russian art and silver.

Thanks for all you help, and I look forward to when you get a chance to post those fakes you were talking about.

Chris

[GeorgeCL]

Hi Chris

Dmitry Markov is a fine dealer..

You should never have a problem with him.

I also have not heard of the other.

Ive been on ebay since 98 and have seen dealers come and go.

Just changing id's and countries of origin..

I think that canadian dealer is also hooked up with a guy in australia.

Uses all the same terminology..and listing format. Cant remember his ID.

A few years back I got out of collecting Third Reich stuff for the same reasons I now have with Imp. Russian.

But it has almost become a passion so I'll stick it out this time around.

If you read Russian there is a Great russian forum with very knowlegeable collectors.

They have helped me out in the past.

I have the link at home ill post later.

I'm going to pin a post within the next week or so on Reference books.

Pictured and small review of my thoughts.

Imperial russian references are usually small runs and go Out of print quickly.

George

[Ramblinfarms]

Thanks George. I was lucky enough to get a copy of "Imperial Russian Breast Badges"-by Werlich and Andolenko, from Mr Markov.

[Ramblinfarms]

The screwplate is stamped with the manufacturer: "R. Feigelson." Anyone hear of this manufacturer? For what it's worth, that makes me feel better than if it were another one of the flood of "3. Kortman" issues we've been seeing all over ebay. Actually, I STILL don't have the badge in hand. Apparently there were delays about getting it out of Russia with UPS red tape. The Dealer emailed me, and promised it this week so we shall see. He has promised me a 100% refund and a free reference book for the inconvenience if it doesn't get here this week.

He also says that there may be a very small quantity of other Imperial Badges that may be coming over with this shipment, but he is not certain it will actually happen. If he sends me photos, I'll post them for comments.

We shall see ....

Chris

Edited June 26, 2006 by Ramblinfarms

[REGAL UNIFORMA COLECTOR]

Latest Russian fakers trick. Find photos of interesting items and start sewing. You now have instant provenance. "Look...can't you see its real ? I have a photo to prove it. It must have belonged to the guy in the photo". What a scam. Check out the cloth textiles that are being used in these Imperial Russian uniforms. They are 1920's-WW2 Soviet uniforms converted into Imperial Russian uniforms. Throw some dirt, stains and add a few rips and field repairs for affect. Cool

http://cgi.ebay.com/WW1-WWI-RUSSIAN-AIRFOR...1QQcmdZViewItem

[REGAL UNIFORMA COLECTOR]

The screwplate is stamped with the manufacturer: "R. Feigelson." Anyone hear of this manufacturer? For what it's worth, that makes me feel better than if it were another one of the flood of "3. Kortman" issues we've been seeing all over ebay. Actually, I STILL don't have the badge in hand. Apparently there were delays about getting it out of Russia with UPS red tape. The Dealer emailed me, and promised it this week so we shall see. He has promised me a 100% refund and a free reference book for the inconvenience if it doesn't get here this week.

He also says that there may be a very small quantity of other Imperial Badges that may be coming over with this shipment, but he is not certain it will actually happen. If he sends me photos, I'll post them for comments.

We shall see ....

Chris

Chris, be careful buying from Russia. An authenthic badge is illegal to ship from there. Antiquity laws. It will get confescated if it were the real thing. Only the fakes are getting through.

[Ramblinfarms]

I've heard a lot of this stuff are put-togethers and sometimes made up of museum parts pieces sold on the black market. Same thing in German. Get an East German visor, add WWII insignia and group it with other items for a "provenance." Old trick.

I never place any reliance on "gruops" unless I can trace it back to the original owner. Notice the photo that went with the Curassier Badge. Nice photo, but I do not believe he is wearing a Currassier Rgt Badge. Can you tell the unit he is in?

[Ramblinfarms]

Do they actually have to declare the items as repro? Boy that would be fun if you could get access to those shipping records. Of course, the dealers would say it was deliberately described as a fake to clear customs.

[REGAL UNIFORMA COLECTOR]

What do you all think of this one?

This badge is a reproduction.

It should be a stamped badge. This one is cast and polished. Has a textured and pebble look to the back side. The mounting pins for the cypher attachments look new and when you receive the badge, you can see that the ends of the wire has been freshly cut exposing new metal.

Also look at the edge of the badge. There are no extrusion lines from being forced cut through a stamping machine. The edge of the badge is smoothed out from sanding and polishing from a buffer. Like buffing out your car.

The backing plate has a bluish huge color to it which also suggests that it was made recently.

The fakers of Russia are using metal files to file down the edge of a badge trying to duplicate the lines created from a stamping machine of the period. However, their file marks are all over the place. No straight line cuts. Probably too much vodka as they are laughing all the way to the bank.

Well Chris,

Hope I did not scare you away from collecting Imperial Russian.

[Ramblinfarms]

Not at all. In this hobby you win some and sometimes you get burned. I have this one in hand, and man, it still looks good to me. It really looks stamped, rather than cast IMO, even under 10xmagnification. How do they blacken the silve ciphers, vinegar? I don't smell chemical or gunpowder. No fresh cut marks that I can see.

[REGAL UNIFORMA COLECTOR]

What do you all think of this one?

What I see from the photo is the back side of the badge. The top arm and center circle has a pebble look and pitting to it. The other 3 arms of the badge are smooth and the bottom arm shows signs of horrizontal scratch lines which to me looks like the badge was sanded prior to being buffed out. This is because the fakers want to hide any signs that the badge has been cast.

[Ramblinfarms]

I'll get out the loupe again and stare at it until my eyes cross!!!!

I sure don't want to make the same mistake twice!

But in any event, I am fascinated by these badges and Imperial russian History in General.

Thank you again for your feedback and assistance.

And welcome again. I'm sure you will enjoy the forum and this group.

Edited August 5, 2006 by Ramblinfarms