EK 1914 New EKs, (EK1 and two EK2s)

[DavidM]

Hello

I've just received these three 1914 EKs.

The EK1 is vaulted and has a small screwback to it, (should there be another disc under the screw part on mine or is this how they came ?). There are no maker or other markings on the cross, but the screw part has four stars and '800' on it. The cross itself also appears to have a high silver content.

One of the EK2s has 'WS' stamped on the ring while the other has a couple of marks and what appears to be the number '12' stamped onto it. The one marked 'WS' appears to have a high silver content.

The cores on both the EK1 and the EK2 marked '12' 'rattle' in their frames.

Can anyone say from the close in shot of the ring marked '12' who the maker amy be ? I'm not expecting to much given the photo and the nature of the marks, but someone may have seen this before.

Either way I like them. I have to say that they do look a lot better 'in the hand' than on these scans.

As always, any comments or opinions warmly welcomed.

Edited June 2, 2006 by DavidM

[DavidM]

EK2 maker marked 'WS'

[DavidM]

EK2 maker marked 'WS' rear

[DavidM]

EK2 with marking of '12'

[Dave B]

Nice EK's David!

Yes I think the EK1 would have had a backing disc.I seem to recognise the EK1,did you buy that from a British dealer?

Dave

[DavidM]

EK2 with marking '12' rear

[DavidM]

Close in of ring with marking of '12'

[DavidM]

Hello Dave

Thanks for the comments. Yes, they have all come from a UK dealer.

[Dave B]

Thought so

[Daniel Murphy]

The screwback should have an extra back plate which is missing. This is a unmarked Deutsche Offizier Verein EK1. That 12 Marked cross has another marking that looks like it could have been "IK" or "JK". All are very nice crosses. IMHO it is a shame they polished them, I like them with the patina intact. To each his own.

Dan Murphy

Edited June 2, 2006 by Daniel Murphy

[Dave B]

Have you been doing a bit of polishing David?

[DavidM]

Hello

Thanks for the replies and information.

Yes, with the 1914 EKs that are silver I do tend to clean them by dipping them in Goddards silver polish. Two reasons for it, the first being that I am given to understand that if you leave silver with the black tarnish on it will eventually pit and rot. I don't know the full 'science' behind it - although it was once explained to me at some length by a lecturer in metallurgy - but the tarnish builds up due to sulphurs etc in the atmosphere, and as they are acidic they eventually corrode the silver beyond repair. Second, I like them that way as I feel it is how they should look, after all you wouldn't have dared go out on parade with a tarnished EK ! I wouldn't clean a WW2 EK that still has is it's frosted finished etc intact, but these silver ones, yes.

I know there will some sharp intakes of breath at this, but each to their own ways.

[Guest Darrell]

I don't know the full 'science' behind it - although it was once explained to me at some length by a lecturer in metallurgy - but the tarnish builds up due to sulphurs etc in the atmosphere, and as they are acidic they eventually corrode the silver beyond repair.

From a website that talks about Tarnish as per Silverware. However, many storage ideas they refer may be detrimental to the iron etc. especially on Iron Crosses.

________

What causes tarnish: Humidity and chemicals in the air cause silver to tarnish. The most common tarnish causing elements are food (onions, eggs, mayonaisse, salad dressing, salty foods) salt, wool, felt, rubber bands, latex gloves, carpet padding, sulfur in the air, oily residue from our hands and fingers.

Preventing tarnish and storing your silver: Tarnish can be minimized during storage. Place individual pieces of silver inside polyethylene plastic bags (Ziploc?. bags work great) then seal the bags. Wrap each piece with non-buffered tissue paper (acid-free and of archival quality) or soft, anti-tarnish tissue to guard against humidity and prevent contact with materials from the storage bag to the silver. Tarnish-absorbing cloths and Anti-Tarnish (look for 3M or Hagerty Anti-Tarnish strips) paper strips also work well for a limited time. An alternative choice is to place small containers or bags of desiccated silica gel and activated charcoal inside the bag (making sure each piece is individually wrapped). Storing silver in a special silver chest or box lined with with tarnish preventive fabric is also effective, and you can add a Anti-Tarnish strip into the box/chest and change it every few months. DO NOT use plastic cling wrap, newspaper or rubber bands. They have properties that react with silver causing damage that will require a silversmith to repair or polish it to remove the damage. Cardboard boxes that aren't archival have acids that will tarnish the silver very rapidly. DO NOT lacquer or wax your silver due to the difficulties in obtaining an even coating. Many times if the coating was not been applied well, it may be uneven, have streaks and/or small holes, so that when the object tarnishes, the end result is many times worse than if no coating had been applied at all.

______________________

Here is a more scientific explanation on what Tarnish is .. and what happens when we rid silver of tarnish:

When silver tarnishes, it combines with sulfur and forms silver sulfide. Silver sulfide is black. When a thin coating of silver sulfide forms on the surface of silver, it darkens the silver. The silver can be returned to its former luster by removing the silver sulfide coating from the surface.

There are two ways to remove the coating of silver sulfide. One way is to remove the silver sulfide from the surface. The other is to reverse the chemical reaction and turn silver sulfide back into silver. In the first method, some silver is removed in the process of polishing. In the second, the silver remains in place. Polishes that contain an abrasive shine the silver by rubbing off the silver sulfide and some of the silver along with it. Another kind of tarnish remover dissolves the silver sulfide in a liquid. These polishes are used by dipping the silver into the liquid, or by rubbing the liquid on with a cloth and washing it off. These polishes also remove some of the silver.

The tarnish-removal method used in this experiment uses a chemical reaction to convert the silver sulfide back into silver. This does not remove any of the silver. Many metals in addition to silver form compounds with sulfur. Some of them have a greater affinity for sulfur than silver does. Aluminum is such a metal. In this experiment, the silver sulfide reacts with aluminum. In the reaction, sulfur atoms are transferred from silver to aluminum, freeing the silver metal and forming aluminum sulfide. Chemists represent this reaction with a chemical equation.

3 Ag2S + 2 Al ----> 6 Ag + Al2S3

silver sulfide aluminum silver aluminum sulfide

The reaction between silver sulfide and aluminum takes place when the two are in contact while they are immersed in a baking soda solution. The reaction is faster when the solution is warm. The solution carries the sulfur from the silver to the aluminum. The aluminum sulfide may adhere to the aluminum foil, or it may form tiny, pale yellow flakes in the bottom of the pan. The silver and aluminum must be in contact with each other, because a small electric current flows between them during the reaction. This type of reaction, which involves an electric current, is called an electrochemical reaction. Reactions of this type are used in batteries to produce electricity.

Edited June 2, 2006 by Darrell

[notned]

Nice Crosses David!

And they do look good when the Silver is bright.

Thanks Darrell for the interesting insight to the "Tarnishing'

I have some early British Victorian medals that i want to tarnish slightly so i can get a 'Ghosting' of the letters to the naming, ( these have had the name erased!) and i wish to find out who the medal were awarded to.

Cheers Gents

Paul

[DavidM]

Hello

Many thanks Darrell for the information.

One thing I would point out is that if your personal preference is to carefully clean these silver EKs that in my opinion is fine. But don't try cleaning some of the other awards, especially the WW2 stuff, as most of these use a wash which will just come right off and ruin the item. Leave those as they are !

[Guest Brian von Etzel]

With regard to silver sulfide isn't it true that the final degradation of the silver is a function of the continuing buildup and not a function of the tarnish that's already there. I thought, could be wrong, that a patina in and of itself was not like an acid that will eat away at the silver but simply a 'result' of the conversion over time. I thought, that's 'thought', if you arrested the problem you stopped the problem. Worth more input as if people think they need to rid the patina and start cleaning awards they might be doing some damage.

[DavidM]

Hello Brian

I'm not 100% on this but as I understand it, it is the black coloured build up, (as opposed to the lighter 'brown' patina), that causes the damage. All these crosses were heavily coated by a really thick black layer, hence why I very, very carefully cleaned them. My understanding is that if done very carefully and properly, cleaning these silver items is benefical to them.

That said, and as I mentioned before, only a few items can be cleaned, i.e. the real silver items. Other medals and awards, and certainly the majority of third reich awards, should be left as they are otherwise you could well ruin them.

As I say, just my pennies worth and preference based on my understanding of the issue.

[Guest Brian von Etzel]

David, nothing wrong with your preference! It's truly a matter of what you want to see when you look at your collection. I like patina to help me age items. This kind of patina is NOT replicated by any brush on chemicals. P.S. An 1870 EKII on a medalbar.

[Guest Brian von Etzel]

Likewise this 1914 Wiederholungsspange patina.

[DavidM]

Hello

Thanks for that Brian. Any chance of seeing the full 1870 EK ?