Italian Victory Medals

[Kev in Deva]

As we start out, we can use this thread for Italian Victory Medals, award documents, variations in medals/ribbons, etc.

Tim

My Italian Victory Medals:-

Kevin in Deva.

Edited February 23, 2013 by IrishGunner

[Kev in Deva]

Rear Italian Victory Medals:-

Kevin in Deva.

[Kev in Deva]

Italian Minis:-

Size:- 17.5mm, 18mm, 12.5mm

Kevin in Deva. :beer:

Edited July 15, 2009 by Kev in Deva

[Tim B]

Italian (Sacchini-Milano) I have all but the 1915 dated one:

[Tim B]

I also have this S. Johnson on a 3-pc medal bar. :cheers:

[Tim B]

Here's another Italian one, this time an S. Johnson. Appears the medals made by Johnson are more of a reddish-brown metal than the other makers.

[Tim B]

Another Italian medal, this one without the manufacturer's name on the obverse. Laslo calls lists this as a "type 4".

[Tim B]

Just a beautiful design and this medal is as mint as they get.

Note the ribbon is sewn together here, so I assume this is the original/period ribbon.

Tim :cheers:

[RobW]

Hello Tim and Kevin,

I have a few official italian vic strikes with different ribbons. Some of these ribbons have been confirmed as those on the original issue by fellow italian medal collectors on a number of italian forums. In addition I have some of the italian re-issue and reproduction strikes that show some of the more recent contemporary ribbon types used.

I will track all the items down and post a side-by-side comparison pic soon.

Regards,

Rob

[Tim B]

Hi guys,

Well, here are my last two Italians

With no further ado...

Here's my first Italian that I picked up several years ago from a German dealer and I don't think the ribbon is correct, but I also have no idea what it would go to if not a victory medal?? It's a Johnson.
Tim

Edited February 23, 2013 by IrishGunner

[Tim B]

A little closer and you can see the basics colors, but not blended at all.

[Tim B]

Now, here's a heartbreaker for me...

First, the pictures and the description that stated MINT, 100% original including 100% original period ribbon. :jumping:

[Tim B]

...and what I actually received.

When I stated it was not even the same medal as the one shown or described, the seller said, he always used stock photos and nobody ever complains.

At least is was the correct maker.

Lorioli & Castelli with a modern replaced ribbon. This appears to be one of the common replacement ribbons often seen on ebay these days. IMO, the colors are wrong and the material is definately modern material. If you conduct a burn test on this, you will see the remnant ball up as it burns/melts and it does not burn clean or leave an ash like old period material would. Hopefully I can replace it one day with a better example.

Tim

[Tim B]

At least I got some money back.

Close-up

[Tim B]

So, here is a composite of Types 1-4 according to Laslo:

Type 1: Sacchini-Milano

Type 2: S. Johnson-Milano

Type 3: F.M. Lorioli & Castelli-Milano

Type 4: Not Indicated (unknown)

[Tim B]

So, I am still missing the Type 5 which has the dates 1915 - 1918 on the reverse, which correctly reflects the year Italy actually entered the war.

And, then there are ones like this that I'm not sure what category they fall into? (Reissue type 2?)

[RobW]

So, here is a composite of Types 1-4 according to Laslo:

Type 1: Sacchini-Milano

Type 2: S. Johnson-Milano

Type 3: F.M. Lorioli & Castelli-Milano

Type 4: Not Indicated (unknown)

Tim,

There are two different varieties of the Lorioli-Castelli Milano signed version. I will post pics tonight.

Regards,

Rob

[RobW]

Hello Tim,

Here are the pics of the two signature varieties of the Lorioli-Castelli type italian vic. I am not sure of the reasons behind the truncation of the makers mark and am inquiring with some fellow italian collectors. More details will hopefully follow.

On a rarity scale the smaller signature type is seen much more rarely (approx 1 in 20) out of the Lorioli-Castelli variety. The smaller signature variety has accordingly been dubbed 'Italian official type 3a' as a continuance of the Laslo type classifications.

Close-up pics to follow.

Regards,

Rob

Edited September 4, 2009 by RobW

[RobW]

And here are the close-ups.

Hope the pics help.

Regards,

Rob

[RobW]

So, I am still missing the Type 5 which has the dates 1915 - 1918 on the reverse, which correctly reflects the year Italy actually entered the war.

And, then there are ones like this that I'm not sure what category they fall into? (Reissue type 2?)

Hello Tim,

It is not a re-issue type 2. I have a couple of the re-issue type 2 and will post pics of them when I have time. The item you have displayed is actually the reproduction type 3, according to Mr Laslo's reference. It is a contemporary copy of the unofficial type 1 and has been seen in a number of different metal finishes. The differences are described in Mr Laslo's reference book.

The unofficial type 1 has also been seen in a number of different finishes. They have also been seen manufactured from slightly different base metals, as well as having different staffa suspenders.

More pics to follow on the re-issue types and repro type 3 when I have time.

Regards,

Rob

Edited September 4, 2009 by RobW

[RobW]

To all,

Here is an italian unofficial vic type 1, 34 mm in diameter. It is considered rare even amongst italian collectors.

Regards,

Rob

Edited September 4, 2009 by RobW

[RobW]

Here are the obligatory close-ups.

Regards,

Rob

[Tim B]

Hi Rob!

That's an interesting variation on the Lorioli-Castelli, never seen one before.

On the unmarked one I posted/inquired about(reissue type 2/Unofficial type1/Repro type 3), I guess you have to be able to handle them and compare in hand to really tell the differences. The photo I showed is of course by "that" seller and knowing that he habitually uses stock photos to sell his stuff, I have not dealt with him after my first (and last) dealing with him.

As most don't provide a size dimension, how would you tell without being able to handle and compare in a side by side comparison? I went back to take a closer look at the photos on this one and though the strike seems weak on both examples, I do see some signs I don't like on the one I posted photos of (again, not my medal).

The overall soft look to the details, does lead me to believe this is a casting of an original. Looking at the red circles in the below photo, you can see the weaker than normal strike in the letters, but also the edge striations appear to be file marks (red arrows) while the top circle appears unfiled. Also note the Staffa area where there appears to be flaws at both ends.

Umm; if this guy is spitting out fakes, then he must be making a killing on these.

Tim

[Tim B]

Rob,

In hindsight, maybe I should be happy that he didn't send me the "mint" one in the photos. I could tell the strike wasn't a cast, but I double-checked just in case. :beer:

[RobW]

Rob,

In hindsight, maybe I should be happy that he didn't send me the "mint" one in the photos. I could tell the strike wasn't a cast, but I double-checked just in case.

Tim,

Looking at that Lorioli-Castelli variety it looks good to me. At 36 mm it is also the right diameter. Looks like a case of correct medal but with a more modern ribbon, probably replacing a worn out original. I am aware of a couple of cast copies that were produced in the UK in the early 1960's (italian vic repro type 1 and 2) but these are immediately noticeable due to the dark iridescent base metal and finish, reduced level of detail and a casting line in the centre of the rim around the medal.

Regards,

Rob

Edited September 5, 2009 by RobW