Christian Zulus Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Gentlemen,dear experts,I have this Sniper Badge in my modest collection. Please can you helpt me with the exact identification - version & period - and if that badge might be authentic.Red enamel is very fine, screwplate is from Leningrad Mint, the relief at the rv. is sharp and deep and the piece is massive and heavy.Many thanks in advance ChristianExcellent Sniper Badge, av.: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted January 10, 2007 Author Share Posted January 10, 2007 Excellent Sniper Badge, av. (det.): Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted January 10, 2007 Author Share Posted January 10, 2007 (edited) Excellent Sniper Badge, av. (det.): Edited January 10, 2007 by Christian Zulus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted January 10, 2007 Author Share Posted January 10, 2007 Excellent Sniper Badge, rv.: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfred Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Christian,try this side. There are all versions of the badges shown.http://www.znakisssr.h15.ru/Here is a copy of a sniper badge. I never saw a real one with these upright lines.A good indicator is the fixing of the screwpost. If it looks like a screw, it?s a fake. The first fakes of these badges appeared in 1991 or 1992.regardsAndreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted January 11, 2007 Author Share Posted January 11, 2007 Christian,try this side. There are all versions of the badges shown.http://www.znakisssr.h15.ru/Here is a copy of a sniper badge. I never saw a real one with these upright lines.A good indicator is the fixing of the screwpost. If it looks like a screw, it?s a fake. The first fakes of these badges appeared in 1991 or 1992.regardsAndreasDear Andreas,many thanks for that great link .The second version of the "Sniper" at that website has also these upright lines.I couldn't find your posted scans at Igor's site - so he already sold the badge.Did Igor offer that badge as a "copy"?I have to admit, that the quality of enamel - both at your posted scan and at recent copy of "Excellent Mine Layer", Igor offers now at his site http://www.collectrussia.com/DISPITEM.HTM?ITEM=9221 - is lower, than at my "Sniper". But the "Mine Layer"-copy has also - as my "Sniper" - a "Leningrad"-screwplate and the highly detailed rv.So, the case - fake or not - is still not 100 % solved.Best regards Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lapa Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 ...So, the case - fake or not - is still not 100 % solved.Christian,How about some clear, good quality pictures to try and solve that "mystery" Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted March 15, 2008 Author Share Posted March 15, 2008 How about some clear, good quality pictures to try and solve that "mystery" Dear Marc,o.k., I will try with my mobile-phone-camera ... As I already mentioned, that badge come to the West BEFORE the big wave of fakes arraived at the collectors market.Do you have some more links to Russian websites, where some genuine Excellence Badges can bee seen ?Best regards Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lapa Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 ...As I already mentioned, that badge come to the West BEFORE the big wave of fakes arraived at the collectors market. Christian,Living in the former Evil Empire since many years (and having travelled there since the early 1970's), that bit of "common Western wisdom" is, IMHO, nothing more than an attempt at self-reassurance - what the French call "Methode Cou?".Fakes - of quality varying from laughable to very high - were produced in many fields (OMDs, uniforms, collectables, etc) as early as the 1980's, if not earlier.One must always keep in mind that Russians have their own understanding of what an original, a copy, a replica, etc, are. I addition, the Soviet Union promoted what I nickname a culture of the "real fake": copies of the original made by specialized masters to be as close to the original as possible. An example of this is the cap Lenin wore when Nelly Kaplan shot him; I have personally seen at least 3 or 4 "originals" in various museums, each one with, among other things, the bullet hole and Lenin's spilled blood looking as they should Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted March 15, 2008 Author Share Posted March 15, 2008 Dear Marc,these are good & valid arguments .But as a historian & economist, I guess, that the forgers & fakers shops (or booming industry ) in the Baltics started off with their really big business in the mid 1990s, when the prices & demand for Soviet items started to grow. In the early 1990s there had been an affluent supply of Soviet awards and very low prices in the West. So, there would have been too less profit for our keen "experts" in the Baltics. Of course, I had been fooled at the beginning of my collector's career by a casted RB-screwback and a strucked Nakhimov-Medal, but both items had been clear visible fakes at the first sight for all real experts. I don't think, that these two fakes had been manufactured in the Baltics, because there our forgers have a higher standard. O.K., a RB-screwback and a Nakhimov-Medal had been faked from the very beginning, due to their always rather high market value from the very beginning und due to the easyness of faking specially these two items. But "Excellence Badges" had been cheap & affluent at these times and there would have been too less economic reason to fake a Sniper - it was easier to struck a Nakhimov .Just my theory - as a historian from outside - to the history of "real fakes" in Russian ... Best regards ChristianBTW: Marc, what's your nationality - I always regarded you as a Russian ?Living in the former Evil Empire since many years (and having travelled there since the early 1970's), that bit of "common Western wisdom" is, IMHO, nothing more than an attempt at self-reassurance - what the French call "Methode Cou?".Fakes - of quality varying from laughable to very high - were produced in many fields (OMDs, uniforms, collectables, etc) as early as the 1980's, if not earlier.One must always keep in mind that Russians have their own understanding of what an original, a copy, a replica, etc, are. I addition, the Soviet Union promoted what I nickname a culture of the "real fake": copies of the original made by specialized masters to be as close to the original as possible. An example of this is the cap Lenin wore when Nelly Kaplan shot him; I have personally seen at least 3 or 4 "originals" in various museums, each one with, among other things, the bullet hole and Lenin's spilled blood looking as they should Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lapa Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 ...BTW: Marc, what's your nationality - I always regarded you as a Russian ?Christian,I am sort of a multicultural chameleon, but I carry both Australian and French passports.Russia - Soviet Union - is a long-standing (and ongoing) love affair Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted March 15, 2008 Author Share Posted March 15, 2008 I am sort of a multicultural chameleon, but I carry both Australian and French passports.Dear Marc,that's really a more than rare combination .Best regards ChristianBTW: For the "nationality-cultural-competition" at Christophe's quiz - shall we count you to French cultural world or English-American cultural world ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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