Mongolia Suuigiyn Gombo

[Ed_Haynes]

Just in, a broken group of four to Suuigiyn Gombo (also Shu Zhun Yui Gombo).

1- Hero of Labor "Gold Soyombo" Medal -- #52, 1962 issue

2- Order of Sukhbaatar -- 1945 type screw back, #158, 1957 issue

3- Order of Sukhbaatar -- 1945 type screw back, #423, 1962 issue (awarded with the Gold Soembo)

4- Order of the Red Banner of Labor Valor -- 1945 type, #621, 1951 issue

Edited October 5, 2005 by Ed_Haynes

[Ed_Haynes]

1- Hero of Labor "Gold Soyombo" Medal -- #52, 1962 issue

Edited October 5, 2005 by Ed_Haynes

[Ed_Haynes]

The hero document cover:

77 mm x 109 mm

Edited October 5, 2005 by Ed_Haynes

[Ed_Haynes]

The front page-spread.

[Ed_Haynes]

The photo page, photo missing

[Ed_Haynes]

The award information page.

Nothing more in this certificate.

[Ed_Haynes]

2- Order of Sukhbaatar -- 1945 type screw back, #158, 1957 issue

[Ed_Haynes]

3- Order of Sukhbaatar -- 1945 type screw back, #423, 1962 issue (awarded with the Gold Soembo)

[Ed_Haynes]

4- Order of the Red Banner of Labor Valor -- 1945 type, #621, 1951 issue

Yes, the center piece seems to have been re-fixed, slightly off center, though tipping on the scanner makes this look worse that it does in person.

Edited October 5, 2005 by Ed_Haynes

[Ed_Haynes]

The other award booklet.

76 mm x 96 mm.

[Ed_Haynes]

The first page spread.

(Because this is such an unusual item, I'll show all pages, with closeups as needed. Sorry.)

[Ed_Haynes]

Second spread.

Photo missing

[Ed_Haynes]

Spread three.

Hope the light blue printing is legible? I can try again if needed.

[Ed_Haynes]

The fourth page spread, and the interesting stuff.

[Ed_Haynes]

Detail of the fun (and sad) stuff. The first three awards -- all the same thing -- are, of course missing. What?! Do I read this right as 1936, 1948, and 1955 awards of the same thing.

Then the 17 Nov 1951 award of the Red Banner of Labor #621.

Then the 24 Oct 1957 award of his first Sukhbaatar # 158.

Then something else, unnumbered, in 1960.

Finally the Sukhbaatar (28 Nov 1962) that came with the Soyombo, #423.

What is missing . . . ???

[Ed_Haynes]

While (perhaps) anticlimactic, the remaining pages in the booklet.

The fifth spread.

[Ed_Haynes]

Sixth.

[Ed_Haynes]

And, finally, seventh.

[Ed_Haynes]

What can be known, what can be told? Very happy, but very confused.

[Guest Rick Research]

The first three were Polar Star Orders: I can remember that as "Altan" from Dave Danner's posting on Mongolian which vanished, because it sounds like a Celtic music group. I note with puzzlement that the 3rd one is lower numbered than the second one. Left over stock? Entered wrong?

From the printed precedence list where it is #2, the missing 1960 Order appears to be, oddly, the Military (can't bring myself to translate something so obviously incorrect as "Combat") Red Banner Order.

Your book appears to date from 1936 though Dr. Battushig shows it as "1946" type. But then he has a "1955" for mine from 1954.

I think we are all still learning as we go.

Too bad about the photos.

I make nothing out of the handwritten scribbles with the ? serial number at the back, but would venture a guess that it is either the Victory Over Japan or 1946 Jubilee Medal annotated there.

Maybe.

Or, the cost of potatoes.

[Ed_Haynes]

Thanks, Rick.

"We learn as we go" -- how true, how wise.

Ed

[Dave Danner]

The first three were Polar Star Orders: I can remember that as "Altan" from Dave Danner's posting on Mongolian which vanished, because it sounds like a Celtic music group. I note with puzzlement that the 3rd one is lower numbered than the second one. Left over stock? Entered wrong?

From the printed precedence list where it is #2, the missing 1960 Order appears to be, oddly, the Military (can't bring myself to translate something so obviously incorrect as "Combat") Red Banner Order.

алтан means "golden". Same as altin in Turkish (only without the dot on the "i")

Алтан гадас од, though, does indeed mean "polestar".

In post #13 (Spread three), the signatories are for different officers than those on the book Rick posted. Rick's were signed by the Chairman and Secretary of the Presidium of the State Great Hural of the Peoples Republic of Mongolia. (БНМА Улсын их хурлын тэргїїлэгчдийн дарга and БНМА Улсын их хурлын тэргїїлэгчдийн нарийн бичгийн дарга). These, however, are signed by the Chairman and Secretary of the Presidium of the Lesser Hural of the Peoples Republic of Mongolia (БНМАУын бага хурлын тэргїїлэгчдийн дарга and БНМАУын бага хурлын тэргїїлэгчдийн нарийн бичгийн дарга). The Lesser Hural (бага хурал, Baga Hural or Baga Khural) was the lower house of the Mongolian parliament, with the State Great Hural being the upper house.

The other medal does indeed appear to be an Order of the Red Banner of War Merit, second to the Order of Sukhbaatar in the order of precedence.

1. Сухбаатарын одон

2. байлдааны гавьяаны улаан тугийн одон

3. хєдєлмєрийн гавьяаны улаан тугийн одон

4. байлдааны гавьяаны одон

5. Алтан гадас одон

6. байлдааны медаль

7. хєдєлмєрийн медаль

The spellings of several of these words has changed between the two documents and between modern Mongolian usage, too.

I make nothing out of the handwritten scribbles with the ? serial number at the back, but would venture a guess that it is either the Victory Over Japan or 1946 Jubilee Medal annotated there.

You can't make it out because it appears to be in Uighur script. It is probably a signature, but it could be a scribbled reference to another award. If another award, though, it is in an odd place. I think the three dotted lines below the order of precedence is the space to indicate lesser awards from those 7.

[Eric Schena]

If I may posit a theory as to the odd sequence of numbers for those 3 Polar Stars in Ed's really great group...

As y'all know, there are 4 basic types of Polar Stars, the original 1936 design, the 1939 design with Uighur, the 1941 design with Cyrillic, and the 1970 modified coat of arms pinback. From what I can tell, with each of the basic varieties, the numbers started over from 1. So, what may be the case here is that the recipient received two type 2 Polar Stars, then got a Type 3 in 1955. However, without the actual decorations in hand, this is pure theory.

I do have a list of high and low observed numbers for some of these orders by variety, however, they are from another forum where someone was compiling a log of them, so I am very reticent to post them here willy nilly since this is not my research.

Cheers,

Eric

[Ed_Haynes]

Thanks Eric, especially as it coincides with the theory I am evolving.

I can understand your reluctance to post information from another forum, especially if it is one forum I can think of, where the manager thinks he owns everything posted there. A shame information cannot flow freely, though always with proper attribution. Guess there is still an niche for old-fashioned publications

[Guest Rick Research]

That's a plausible idea Eric. The ONLY Mongolian Orders Books I have "seen" as opposed to having "read" in a list are Ed's and mine, so we've got an uphill struggle to document Mongolian groups. Perhaps even more so than with Soviet groups themselves, it seems we find these awards without any paperwork at all, and usually from Soviet recipients rather than Mongolians.

I've been slogging away at serial numbers for Soviet "military" awards for 6 years and still have (obviously) far bigger gaps than data, but enough to guestimate ranges or particularly heavy mass award periods.

We can't DO that with what little we know so far about Mongolian awards...

but what we HAVE posted here already alters a lot of what is known, and as we continue to pool our information, that will improve.

Sharing what we each can contribute WILL advance all our knowledge.