Opinions on ORE 4th class with swords

[censlenov]

I was wondering what everyone thinks as to its authenticity. I'm going to be selling off my entire collection of militaria short of my CEF medals to finance the publishing of a new book and want to be sure its 100%. Now the one thing i will say is that if you look at the reverse crown the beads are indented not protruding???? never seen that before. I will get some better pics done of the order as these don't do it any justice and i'm embarassed to post these. I don't see any markings on it.

Cheers

Chris

[Wild Card]

Hi censlenov,

I am sorry, I just can not feel real comfortable about those swords.

I am sure, however, that more knowledgeable members will sort this out.

Best wishes,

Wild Card

[medalnet]

Absolutely agree, those swords are not from a authorized manufacturer. Yet, the piece looks old and was for sure purchased in time. Maybe for a medal bar.

[censlenov]

I did think about the swords but the hilt is pretty narrow however they are more of a gold colour then shown in the picture. The dirt and grim and tarnish on it sure do make it seem like its period. Could it be a jewelers copy?

[Wild Card]

Could it be a jewelers copy?

This is very possible. As suggested by medalnet - "Maybe for a medal bar."

[RAO]

I think that cross is made of brass. Is that correct? Greetings Mike

[censlenov]

I think that cross is made of brass. Is that correct? Greetings Mike

The cross looks to be some kind of metal that has been silver gilt; brass would be the most likely candidate? Have you come across this before?

Edited October 3, 2008 by censlenov

[censlenov]

It's been suggested on another forum that this may have been an award dating from 1916-18. Which is why the materials used arn't consistent with earlier production issues (solid silver). The person who suggested that idea stated that around 1916 solid silver awards were replaced by a gilt "pot metal". It's a plausible theory and the piece definately has some age to it. When i get a good photo taken the quality of the eagle is absolutely breath taking.

Searching around the forum i found http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=29478&hl=red+eagle if you study the swords on the 3rd class in post 2 they are very similar to the one i have.

Searching here (i know these are eagles on 3rd class)

http://medalnet.net/Eagle_Design.htm I'd have to say my eagle looks very similar to 4 th type 1854 - 1918 made by Wagner silver gilt decoration

The more i look at it the more i like it as a period piece and the late war explanation make alot of sense.

Still looking for more feedback before i sell it off.

Cheers

Chris

[RAO]

I know these pieces but do never believe that they are between 1916 - 1918 were manufactured. Why? Non-ferrous metals (Buntmetall) was an important commodity in the WWI are not silver. I think the cross for a production after 1920 while also addressing the different design of the crown would be explainable. Greeting Mike

[censlenov]

I know these pieces but do never believe that they are between 1916 - 1918 were manufactured. Why? Non-ferrous metals (Buntmetall) was an important commodity in the WWI are not silver. I think the cross for a production after 1920 while also addressing the different design of the crown would be explainable. Greeting Mike

Thanks so much for your opinion Mike at least i can say its not an outright forgery.

Cheers

Chris

[censlenov]

Here are the better pictures as promised. Still not happy about how the eagle is showing up its much nicer in person. What would be a fair price to ask for this piece as i will be moving it on shortly to finance publishing costs for a new book.

[censlenov]

The Eagle

[censlenov]

Obverse and Reverse

[RAO]

Please take pictures of the swords. ;o)

Best Regards Mike

[censlenov]

are these good enough or shoul i try to get better ones?