Soviet One of my WWII medal bars

[Hauptmann]

Hi all,

Here's one of my WWII medal bars. Would welcome any info, opinions, etc. on this or the others I'm posting as I don't as yet have a copy of McDaniel's book. Yes, yes, I know... it's the bible... have to get it. Believe me... I want it... just trying to scrounge up the money as for me right now it's a fairly major investment, albeit one that is well worth it from all I've heard. Sure wish I could find one used for cheap...

As I know the numbers are hard to read in some of these here they are:

Order of the Red Banner (366,733)

For Valor (2,697,271)

Have had this for a number of years and it's one of my two favorite bars of those I'm lucky enough to own.

As with my others I wonder if these are worth researching as if and when I can ever afford it... not that I know how much it currently costs or that much about how to go about it, if it can be done I'd love to do it eventually.

Thanks for looking!

Dan

[Guest Rick Research]

Hmm. That's almost certainly a November 1950 20 years service Red Banner. No 10-14 years MMM on there from November 1944 and the same wrongly done ribbons as on your other medal bar makes me think that this one is a composite parts bar, too.

[Guest Darrell]

Unusual in the fact that the ribbons appear put on after the backing plates were assembled, which appear to be all recent replacements. Never seen that before.

Edited April 12, 2006 by Darrell

[Hauptmann]

Hmm. That's almost certainly a November 1950 20 years service Red Banner. No 10-14 years MMM on there from November 1944 and the same wrongly done ribbons as on your other medal bar makes me think that this one is a composite parts bar, too.

Hi Rick,

Good to see you again! Hmmmm, never knew. I had a dealer tell me years ago:

"Would assume this is a WWII issue as on a 5 bar of all WWII period awards. Not sure, but before 1950."

Another gentleman I spoke with, Ed Maier, had said "WWII to pre-1950?" (his question mark).

Only thing is I can't remember if either actually saw them... I think I just decribed them and gave the numbers so that may explain alot.

I mean either way I still love the bar, but have of course dreamed they would both be research pieces, etc. But hey, they're still nice, I love them so guess there's nothing wrong with that. :-) Would still love to know the history on them eventually but guess it's not as good an item to research as it might have been.

How about the Order of Glory and the Valor and Combat medals on these bars? Would they be worth looking into, even if they end up being from different individuals?

Also, although I've yet to actually put together any Soviet ribbons on a medal bar is this something that I should try to "neaten up" if possible? And how difficult would that be? At least until I confirm they're not supposed to be together I'd like them to look their best.

Will be keeping my fingers crossed. But many thanks for the info. As much as I'd have loved to hear great group and research material the truth is important and as I say I still love them.

Many thanks!

Dan

[Hauptmann]

Unusual in the fact that the ribbons appear put on after the backing plates were assembled, which appear to be all recent replacements. Never seen that before.

Hi Darrell,

Good to see you again as well. I mean as far as it goes wouldn't vets or perhaps even collectors possibly replace older ratty looking ribbons on occassion? I remember when I was in Navy JROTC anytime our ribbons or awards got dirty or messed up we were required to replace them. Made perfect sense... we needed to look our best in uniform.

Not that I'm defending it... if it's a put together then it is what it is, no doubt about it. And since I don't know any more of it's history than I've set down in here there's no way for me to know for sure. Even if I could remember the name of the gent I got them from there's no telling if he's even still around or if he is if he'd even remember these... it was probably well over ten years ago at least.

Again, if nothing else, for presentations sake should I try to "tighten up" or "neaten up" the ribbons if it's not too hard to do? I don't generally screw with anything other than a gentle cleaning if a piece needs it and then very carefully. As tempted as I've been to clean alot of my medals and Orders and such I've tried to resist the temptation as I know some collectors love the old patina's, etc. just like coin collectors. From my training we always were shining and polishing everything and no one would think of wearing dirty or tarnished awards.

Thanks,

Dan

[Guest Darrell]

Hi Dan,

Good to see the posting is successful now. You are a Pro

As far as the bar(s), never say never. Ribbons are very often replaced on old suspension devices with old original pendants. This is quite common.

Also you sometimes see complete replacement of the 5 sided suspension devices as well. Nothing wrong with that.

What is unusual in your pieces, is that the 5 sided suspensions (which are very recent replacements- noted by how new they look as well as they appear to be made of modern aluminum) were assembled together BEFORE the ribbons were attached.

Many more learned individuals can comment on whether they have seen that before, but it has never been observed by me. You are correct in an assumption that these may have been assembled by the original owner due to the shape of the original ribbons and suspension devices.

What raises my eyebrows is you have posted a couple of examples (that I assume are NOT from the same Russian awardee) with the exact same method of assembly and type of ribbon on suspension attachment. That would raise an alarm for me.

Would like to hear other opinions. Nice medals though

Edited April 12, 2006 by Darrell