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Alan Baird

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About Alan Baird

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    Melrose Scottish Borders

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  1. Hello everybody, I have just been given an article which I think competes the story for PC William Ind and his Special Duties in Selby. I would not know where to start in transferring this article onto this site so I shall just write out the article..... The Beverley Echo. [Tuesday, November 21, 1893.] Local News. The Powder Magazine at Selby, - The Royal Scots Lothian Regiment will not in future furnish the guard to the North-Eastern Military District Powder Magazine, near Selby. The duty will, it is said, now be undertaken by the Metropolitan Police. Obviously, this is an official statement but all the preparations would have already been taken to ensure a safe and orderly handover from the Military to the Metropolitan Police. PC William Ind started his attachment to Special Duties with the Commissioner's Office on the 14/1/1893. The preparation would have commenced many months before the official handover deadline. Therefore he was one of a very small handful of Policemen that now guarded the Magazine. There were other civilians that also worked in the compound because I read an article about an ex-army soldier that worked as a clerk at the Powder Magazine etc. Alan.
  2. Hi, I would suspect that the 'Ind family' from Wiltshire and Gloucestershire are connected somewhere but my initial searches did not find that connection. PC William Ind's father George Ind [1817-1884] had a sister 'Lucy Ann Ind,' who died on the 26/10/1861 in Avening, in Gloucestershire but that's the nearest I got. I could have easily missed something. Anyway that is the results so far. Alan.
  3. Many thanks Deelibod, I will definitely check it out and as you say the name 'Ind' is quite unusual. Your information is especially helpful because I come from the Scottish Borders so I would never have known the two area's are only about 40 miles apart. many thanks and I will post any relevant information I may find. Alan.
  4. Hi Nick, I am not really sure...….. Queen Victoria's full title would have been something like, ''Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland and Empress of India.' 'Victoria Regina' must be the agreed summary of that...... for adding to smaller items such as medals and coins etc but I don't really know. Alan.
  5. This is Police Constable Ind's police medals :- Queen Victoria Metropolitan Police Jubilee medal from 1887 when he was a PC in 'B' or Chelsea [Westminster] division. The Queen Victoria Metropolitan Jubilee Clasp from 1897 when he was a PC Commissioner's Office but assigned to the War Dept. Office in Selby. Metropolitan Police Coronation medal of 1902 when he was PC Commissioner's Office but assigned to the War Dept. Office in Selby. I might have cropped the photo too much so that it fitted into the file size. Alan.
  6. Hopefully another picture of the powder magazine. Alan Hi again, Hopefully another picture of the powder magazine. Alan.
  7. Hello, I hope I have attached the photograph of the Powder Magazine properly so you can see what it was like. [Built in 1889]. Dave...without your information, I would have definitely gone on the wrong track and still trying to solve the mystery so many thanks. Alan
  8. Hello, I believe Dave was right and that there was a requirement for the Metropolitan Police to protect War Department establishments and as he said,' the Metropolitan Police provided the Policemen and the War Department would cover the costs of such arrangements.' I also now believe that on the 14th of January in 1893, when PC William Ind was assigned to the Commissioner's Office at Scotland Yard ...…..he was probably transferred straight away to the War Dept. Office in Selby. The Powder Magazine built in 1889 by the War Department was approximately 4 years old when PC William Ind arrived to take up his duties, guarding the magazine and compound. The site had three cottages on it for the Policemen who guarded the compound. I am not sure when these were built or if PC William Ind and his family actually resided in one of them. I do know that this site was guarded up until about 1970 when the whole site was sold to the local farmer. The Powder Magazine is still there to this day but it is a bit run down, to say the least. The farmer, I believe, is working with English Heritage to get the building listed and the site developed. There is a Sheila Newsome from the Selby History Group who has been invaluable in researching this and even supplied me with some photographs of the Powder Magazine at Barlby. I am not sure how to attach these, so I may post this entry now and try to attach a photograph later. regards, Alan.
  9. Hi, This is just to update things, I asked the Selby and District Family History Group if they have any information on this subject and they are going to get back to me after their next meeting. They did say that there was a munitions factory in Magazine Road, in Barlby which might have a connection but it is too early to tell. Alan. I have just found a reference to a ''Powder Magazine that was built by the War Department in 1889.'' which might be relevant to the story. This relates to Barlby which is next to Selby in Yorkshire.
  10. Hi Dave, The information is very useful and much appreciated. As you say the Metropolitan Police were responsible for the dockyards ie Portsmouth [1st divn./282 policemen], Devonport [2nd divn./291] and Chatham [3rd divn./221] etc but those were large establishments where the Police lived and worked and were mostly recuited from the local population, except for those that were transferred into the division. The figures for the establishments relate to 1902 records.. PC Willian Ind was one Police Constable going to the War Dept. Office in Selby which must have been more like a village than a town in 1901 to 1904. I just can't imagine that particular War Dept. Office being anything but small so maybe it was the importance of the projects or work being carried out that warranted the Metropolitan Police presence? I researched a PC Jesse Barlow, some time ago and he was with 'A' or Whitehall division through-out his whole pensionable career and also served, for a number of years, with the Windsor Castle Metropolitan Police security detail protecting Queen Victoria. PC Barlow would travel with the Royal Party to Osbourne House and Barmoral Castle during the season but would always return to the family home in Windsor at the end of the visit. PC William Ind, on the other hand, served year after year at Selby and although he was assigned to the Commissioner's Office, never appears to have returned to London. I just feel something is still missing in the Selby story. Once again Dave thanks you for your information, it made me think from different angles. Alan.
  11. Hello, I find I have a very strange mystery which I was hoping somebody can help to solve. Information and idea's most welcome. Metropolitan Police Constable William Ind was attached to the Metropolitan Police Commissioner's Office from 14/1/1893 to 18/4/1904. Special duties involved protecting Government departments, public companies or private individuals etc and he was assigned to be, ''Employed at War Dept. Station, Selby.'' We know this because that information is clearly detailed on his pension records from 1904....but he was employed to work at the War Dept, Station at Selby, in Yorkshire. The England Census of 1901, the records show that PC William Ind and family as residing at the White House, at Barlby, in Yorkshire. That entry includes PC William Ind [42], his wife Eliza [47] and their children Clara Elizabeth [11] and Daisy Priscilla Ind [9]. PC William Ind's Metropolitan Police pension records dated 18/4/1904 detail his current address as being, ''1 Victoria Terrace, Barlby Road, Selby.'' It also confirms that this is the address he intends to reside at on leaving the Metropolitan Police. It also confirms that his pension is to be paid into the, ''Selby Post Office.'' Therefore we can evidence with the various records that he was on special duties at the War Dept. Station Selby, in Yorkshire from at least 1901 to 1904 and probably for a much longer period than that. In the England Census of 1911, we find that William Ind and his family ae residing at , '3 New Street, in Selby, in Yorkshire.'' William Ind is now employed as a, ''cycle dealer.'' Here are some general details on PC William Ind. William Ind was born in Wootton Bassett, in Wiltshire, on the 14/6/1858. Joined the Metropolitan Police 14/4/1879 - PC - 'A' or Whitehall division. Warrant number 63496. Served also in 'H' or Whitechapel divn. 'L' or Lambeth divn. 'B' or Chelsea division. Transferred to the Commissioner's Office 14/1/1893 and remained there until he retired on pension in 1904. Question why would a Metropolitan Police Constable be employed to work in Selby, in Yorkshire and why would the Metropolitan Police pay for such an arrangement? What could be so important or secret or valuable that it warrants this deployment from the Metropolitan Police? What makes the War Dept. Office in Selby unique, as I have never heard of such an unusual arrangement being done before by the Metropolitan Police. This deployment also continued for years so what was so vital and important in the Selby area. Hopefully somebody can help with information or suggestions. Many thanks Alan.
  12. Hello, This is just for information and to finish the story. I have not yet managed to locate this particular individuals Royal Navy service number but I did actually find a member of his family on Ancestry. The older members of the family knew that their brother had served on HMS London at the Yangtze in 1949. After he returned home, he spoke to one brother in particular, about what it had been like during the incident. I am still hopeful his service number may eventually be found from within the family. Alan. The End.
  13. Many thanks Egorka, every little bit counts. regards, Alan.
  14. There is another site which I have found that is quite interesting and deals with the Navy etc and that is the, ''maritimequest'' site. They certainly appear to have specific knowledge regarding the Yangtze Incident and so I have left a message regarding George Desmond Jonathon Smith. It might be a long shot but for me it is worth checking. regards, Alan.
  15. Hello, Thank you for the suggestions especially the, 'british medal forum,' which seems a particularly good idea. I have been hoping that a collector/researcher/historian that specialised in, 'HMS London,' or the 'Yangtze Incident,' might have relevant ship crew lists within their personal data which would have been easiest and quickest way to identify this possible crew member of HMS London. Since he remained in the same Police Constabulary from 1/11/1949, it might be possible to obtain his Navy serial number from his original Police admission paperwork. One of the main problems with this strategy is that there were several amalgamations of County and provincial police forces over the years which might complicate that line of research. Living in the Scottish Borders is extremely nice but unfortunately it means visiting the National Archives etc is extremely unlikely especially for only one query. I would suspect that no submission for information to the MOD would be accepted without his Navy serial number being attached. Therefore it may be the case that the story is known but it is not possible to factually confirm that story. regards, Alan. PS apologies for any mistakes but I not that great at typing.
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