Paul R Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 Good Morning,I have a tunic that bears an arm patch I have not seen before... Here is the typical tunic with patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted April 23, 2006 Author Share Posted April 23, 2006 And here is the patch in question....The tunic is identical to the one above! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted April 23, 2006 Author Share Posted April 23, 2006 I have not seen another since I picked this one up from a seller in Germany(off of Ebay) about five years ago.Any insight would be appreciated.RegardsPaul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerd Becker Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 Hi Paul,"Betriebsschutz" were the guys, who protected the factorys in the DDR.Gerd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted April 23, 2006 Author Share Posted April 23, 2006 Thanks Gerd! Have you seen a lot of these? I am suprised that they would use the uniform of Schutzpolizei. Did the Betriebsschutz have the same law enforcement abilities as the Schutzpolizei? I would have figured that the security guards would have worn a different uniform to prevent confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerd Becker Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 Thanks Gerd! Have you seen a lot of these? I am suprised that they would use the uniform of Schutzpolizei. I would have figured that the security guards would have worn a different uniform to prevent confusion.Well, i am not so into DDR, but i guess, there should be some of them around, if thats the standard-uniform for them. Sorry, can?t help you further, but i am sure, one of the members can solve this riddle.Gerd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted April 23, 2006 Author Share Posted April 23, 2006 You have been a huge help! Thank you!If anyone else has any more information on the Factory Security Service, I look forward to learning more!RegardsPaul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerd Becker Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 Paul,i found an interesting link, while googling this uniform:http://kampfgruppen.de/Its in german, but look at the picture-gallery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehrentitle Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 (edited) I don't collect DDR police uniforms but the patches are quite common. There are two versions one for the shirt and one for the uniform. Here is a illustration of them from one of my NVA Kalender's- Edited April 23, 2006 by ehrentitle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 I'm surprised they would have used the old Weimar/Third Reich "green police" SchuPo name, given the political connotations of that name--rather like if they had kept "Wehrmacht" for the armed forces!The illustration seems to indicate some clear difference in FUNCTION specified by each of the types of patch. ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehrentitle Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 They each had distinct functions. The Bereitshaftspolizei (BePo) for example was a paramilitary organization. Their role was simular to the US National Guard, i.e. they combined warfighting and civil police functions such as civil disturbance control and disaster perpardness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted April 23, 2006 Author Share Posted April 23, 2006 They each had distinct functions. The Bereitshaftspolizei (BePo) for example was a paramilitary organization. Their role was simular to the US National Guard, i.e. they combined warfighting and civil police functions such as civil disturbance control and disaster perpardness.That was my guess with the Bereitshaftspolizei (BePo), as I could not imagine what else they could be used for... extra trained man power. Where these men active duty or were they held on a Reserve status?Gerd,Thank you for that website. I will check it out now.ehrentitle,Thank you for posting that chart! It was actually nice to see that patch references somewhere. Looking at the chart brings another question... What was the "Abschnittsbevollmachtigher"? I have never before seen that patch either. What was this organization's role? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehrentitle Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 (edited) I'm going through my references now as DDR police insignia is not one of my core collecting areas. There is some discussion in Spring 1997 Die Naionale Volksarmee (the journal of the now defunct Society of East German Militaria collectors) that the Bereitschaftpolizei shoulder patch was not worn until 1990. Edited April 23, 2006 by ehrentitle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted April 23, 2006 Author Share Posted April 23, 2006 Gerd,The photos in that website spoke 1000 words. It seems that these men were more than mere gate guards, who checked papers. The photos indicated that they were in charge of all aspects of factory protection/security, to include artillary, anti air defenses, and etc! Very impressive! I emailed the webmaster to request permission to use some of his photos here!Very nice!Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehrentitle Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 From an article on East German Police Insignia in the Fall 1996 Die Nationale Volksarmee -Schutzpolizei - Worn by NCO and enlisted personnel of the regular Peoples Police (VoPo). It was not worn by officers. It was worn on the left sleeve, centered on the upper arm of both the uniform tunic and the jacshirt. The patch came in gree for the regular police and in blue for the Transport Police (TraPo).Beteritbsschutz - This patch was worn by members of the VoPo who were assigned to security of factories and industrial centers. This patch came in green only an was centered on the upper arm of the left sleeve by NCOs and enlisted personnel. Officers did not wear this patch.Abschnitzbevollmachtiger - This patch was worn centered on the upper arm of the left sleeve by personnel who were the responsible authority for a selected section or area. It came in green for the regular VoPo and in blue for TraPo. It is believed that this patch could be worn by officers as well as NCOs.The Bereitschaftspolizei (Barracked Police) did not wear any arm patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehrentitle Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 Paul - Don't get Kampfgruppen confused with VoPo. The "Combat Groups of the Working Class" were another seperate paramilitary organization whos ranks were made up of factory workers. They were a "party Army" trained by the police but directly responsible to the SED (Socialist Unity Party). For example they were moblized in 1961 to build and provide security for the Berlin Wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted April 23, 2006 Author Share Posted April 23, 2006 Thank you for the clarification Ehrentitle. I now understand completly! So the factory security personnel were pulled from the larger population of VoPo. They were a completely independant force than the Kampfgruppen(who were the trained civilian workers themselves).I am still confused about the role of the Abschnitzbevollmachtiger. What are some special areas where a special patch would be worn to designate a "authority for"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehrentitle Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 Thank you for the clarification Ehrentitle. So the factory security personnel were pulled from the larger population of VoPo. I am still confused about the role of the Abschnitzbevollmachtiger. What are some special areas where a special patch would be worn to designate a "authority for"?I've not been able to find more detail. But I suspect it might be the difference between a local policeman and the county sheriff or the state patrol who have a more regional (area) responsibility. I'm scanning my set of uniform patches and will have then posted shortly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehrentitle Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 (edited) Here they are, first Uniform patches - Edited April 23, 2006 by ehrentitle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted April 23, 2006 Author Share Posted April 23, 2006 Here they are -Those are nice!!! I do have a couple of TraPo Tunics with the Schutzpolizei patches(the pics are too blurry to post!). How difficult were the Abschnitzbevollmachtiger patches to find? I would love to find some tunics with this particular patch.Thank you again for your help and clarification. Also, thanks to everyone who helped to make this a very informative thread(to me anyway).I do have a lot of books referencing the military aspect of the DDR, yet I have yet to find the same books for the Police side of the house. I will start a new thread with another mystery tunic.RegardsPaul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehrentitle Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 Jacshirt Patches & Cuff Title - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted April 23, 2006 Author Share Posted April 23, 2006 I did not know that there was a cuff title as well!!! Nice!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehrentitle Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 (edited) Those are nice!!! I do have a couple of TraPo Tunics with the Schutzpolizei patches(the pics are too blurry to post!). How difficult were the Abschnitzbevollmachtiger patches to find? I would love to find some tunics with this particular patch.Thank you again for your help and clarification. Also, thanks to everyone who helped to make this a very informative thread(to me anyway).I do have a lot of books referencing the military aspect of the DDR, yet I have yet to find the same books for the Police side of the house. I will start a new thread with another mystery tunic.RegardsPaulThere are two essential sets of books for VoPo collectors-Klaus Walther's Uniformeffekten Spezialkatalog Band I which covers all MdI organizations (police, customs, etc...) The best color illustrated insignia reference, but hard to find in the US and expensive in German. I have Band II which covers the NVA and Stasi and it is worth its weight in gold.Geschichte der Deutschen Volkpolizei Band I & II published by VEB Deutscher Verlag der Wissenschaften, Berlin 1987. It's the history of the VoPo with photos. You see these for sale on US E-bay now and again Edited April 23, 2006 by ehrentitle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted April 23, 2006 Author Share Posted April 23, 2006 There are two essential sets of books for VoPo collectors-Klaus Walther's Uniformeffekten Spezialkatalog Band I which covers all MdI organizations (police, customs, etc...) The best color illustrated insignia reference, but hard to find in the US and expensive in German. I have Band II which covers the NVA and Stasi and it is worth its weight in gold.Geschichte der Deutschen Volkpolizei Band I & II published by VEB Deutscher Verlag der Wissenschaften, Berlin 1987. It's the history of the VoPo with photos. You see these for sale on US E-bay now and againThanks!I do have band II of Klaus Walther's Uniformeffekten Spezialkatalog. I have not been able to find the band I after several years of looking!I will keep an eye out for the other book you mentioned! Thanks for the infoPaul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehrentitle Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 (edited) Thanks!I do have band II of Klaus Walther's Uniformeffekten Spezialkatalog. I have not been able to find the band I after several years of looking!I will keep an eye out for the other book you mentioned! Thanks for the infoPaulThere is an E-bay seller kirks_east_german_surplus which from time to time offers a CD with both Band I & II of Klaus Walther's Uniformeffekten Spezialkatalog for about $20 plus postage. Kevin Edited April 23, 2006 by ehrentitle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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