Mondvor

Alan, Of course by using "sunlight method" paper would suffer to some extend. BTW, it would become lighter, not darker. But ink would be removed in much faster rate. So after some time you will get blank orderbook which is somewhat lighter (or more pale) than normal orderbook. Not many people would pay attention on that fact. Even if you compare normal orderbooks without "sunburn" you will see that intensivity (contrast) of greyish-bluish-greenish pattern of the orderbook is not the same for different documents. It depends on how many paint was put in a machine during printing.

Here is an example of a "washed" book with the overdose of the chemicals. Old ink removed OK, but some orderbook's paper natural paint removed as well. This one is easy to detect

Most of those "washed" documents appeared more than 5 years ago. This is an "old school technology", so it is no longer used by "black dealers". More recent tactics is to remove the old ink from the paper with a help of a sunlight. The document exposed to direct sun rays for couple of weeks sometimes looks blank. I've seen a Russian dealer who kept several unfolded orderbooks behind his car's windshield. So be aware...

Second page

Another example of fake "washed" book. First page.

Thanks a lot Alan! As I suspected - orderbook is a fake. It is so-called "washed" book. Original entries were removed and substituted for fake ones. I can show many ot those books, but I don't think it is very interesting. Foto is fake as well. If you carefully look at the seal, you will see that there is a tiny snowflake between the words. Only late seals from 60-80th had that type of symbol. War time seals and early post-war seals all had five-rayed star, not a snowflake. The size of the letters was bigger. I suspect that this particular document was made in Germany, I've seen many of them coming from that country.

Hi Alan, Thanks for sharing with us. Could you show the second page of Toporkov's orderbook? And if possible, please, tell us what it says on the seal that applied to the picture of recipient.

About Bradley's Award Record Card... Are you sure this document is real? First there is no seal on that document. Second - there is a mistake in the entry about Suvorov 1st class. This order could not be awarded by 1st Ukrainian Front Prikaz. In according with the statute of this order it could be awarded only with a Supreme Soviet Ukaz. I'm not saying this is a fake paper, but it looks really strange. I've seen some fake research papers.

To all sharp-eyed members Maybe you can also recognise a guy next to Baklanov? He is holding a Red Banner and wearing an Air Force uniform. Hint: he is much more famous than Baklanov

Rick, I don't have a card for RB 81085, but it has been listed in official catalogue or Red Army Museum in Moscow. Here is a description from the catalogue. You can see that it was awarded for Sep-Dec 1943 actions and was presented to recipient on Jan. 18, 1944. It is 100% "swallowtail" specimen. Орден ?Красное Знамя? № 81085 старшины 2 и статьи Фатькина В.В. ? бойца 181-го особого разведывательного отряда разведотдела штаба Северного флота. Награжден приказом командующего Северным флотом № 02 от 15 января 1944 г. за мужество и отвагу, проявленные в боевых разведывательных операциях отряда с конца сентября по декабрь 1943 г. Орден вручен 18 января 1944 г. на Северном флоте. Поступил в музей от Леонова В. И. в 1963 г. Инв. № 6/7238.

That is very interesting. In according with my information, Red Banner 81085 was awarded to another person - master-sergeant Fatkin V.V. from 181st Special Scout Group, Intelligence Department of Northern Fleet. He was awarded on Jan. 15, 1944 by the Prikaz of Northern Fleet commander. Are you sure that first digit is 8?

Single artillery pieced or single tanks (planes) could not receive any individual awards or titles. The smallest unit that could be decorated is independent battalion. Only one exception was in NAVY. In Red Army Fleet single ships or submarines were awarded with orders (most often Order of Red Banner).

First Anti-Aircraft Artillery Division were created on March 1943. In according with regulations (official papers) each AA Division should provide a cover on the areal surface of 63 square kilometers (9 km in front line and 7 km behind the front line). Density is 1,5 AA gun for a square kilometer or 9 AA guns for 1 km of frontline. For example during The Battle of Kursk the troops of Central Front covered by 5 AA Flak Divisions and 10 Independent AA Flak Regiments. One AA Flak division was attached to Field or Tank Army. For example 6th Tank Army in Yass-Kishinev Operation was covered by 1 AA Flak division and 3 Independent AA Flak Regiments. The number of guns in each AA Division changed during the war. At 1943 there were 64 AA guns per division, but since 1944 the number increased to 88 AA guns per division. 6 out of dozens AA Divisions received the Guard's title during the war and changed their numbers (from 1st to 6th Anti-Aircraft Guards Artillery Divisions). Besides AA Artillery Divisions in Red Army were Regular Artillery Divisions, Breakthrough Artillery Divisions (huge caliber guns for crushing enemy defence lines), Anti-Tank Artillery Divisions, Heavy-Mortar Guard Divisions (4 of them) and others... By the end of the war in Red Army were about 10000 AA guns, so total number of AA divisions should be close to 80 (excluding independent AA Regiments an DIVIZIONS that were not a part of AA Division). Each AA Division normally covered the troops of Field or Tank Army. In Red Army were 70 Field Armies, 11 Guard Armies, 5 Shock (or Strike) Armies, 6 Tank Armies... So if we combine them all together than it was almost 80 AA Divisions. The highest number I've seen so far was 69th AA Division of 3rd Guards Army.

Rick, what you did describe above is DIVIZION (in Russian spelling). But Kaninskij was a commander ov DIVIZIYA - much bigger unit than DIVIZION. Unfortunately both Russian words have same translation on English - DIVISION. Artillery DIVIZIYA includes three artillery regiments (early period of war) or three artillery brigades (late period of war). The commander of artillery DIVIZIYA normaly has a rank of Colonel or Major-General of artillery troops. Total number of artillery guns in DIVIZIYA was around 70. Artillery DIVIZION included three artillery batteries and the commander was normally at the rank of Captain or Major. Total number of artillery guns in DIVIZION was around 16. So in our case it was big unit - DIVIZIYA. BTW 49th artillery divizion participated in the liberation of Russian city of Smolensk in 1943 and was given a honorary title "Smolenskaya".

Gentlemen, I want to add my five cents to your conversation. Not necessarily that Kazinskij survived the war. Most likely he did survive, I hope so. But the presence of the order is not a guarantee that he was not KIA. Situation 1. His plane was shot down and crashed into the wood (river, swamp, etc). In early 90th it was found by so-called "black pathfinders" (not sure how to translate it properly). We have a lot of those bastards in Russia and Ukraine - those looters illegally search for war-time military equipment and even dig-out military graves looking for war relics (guns, medals, etc.). Probably they took Red Banner from the body of dead pilot and sold it to Russian dealer, who later sold it to the West. Pretty common situation. My friends sent me some images of such awards. Among them were two 3-rivets Red Stars, screwback Red Banner and Military Merit medal. One of those Red Stars came from crashed bomber that was found in Caucasian mountains. Situation 2. His plane was shot down, but he survived with a parachute and later was captured by advanced German troops. After quick interrogation Kazinskij was killed and German officer took his order as a souvenir. Also pretty common situation. Take a look at the picture that I attach below. This is Russian pilot HSU Major Antonov. Do you think Germans will return his awards to the state? OK, I must confess that those situations are not very common. They are exceptions to the rule. But we should remember that everything was possible during the war.

Name: Kaminskij Nikolaj Ignatievich Military Rank: Colonel Sex: Male Born: 1906 Place of birth: City of Minsk Party membership: Communist Party Member since August 1940 Education: School of Working Youth (Shkola Rabochej Molodezhi) Nationality: Russian In Red Army: since 1927 Position at the time of receiving award: Commander of 49th Anti-Aircraft Artillery Division Position at the present: Commander of 65th Anti-Aircraft Artillery Division of Supreme Command Reserve Home address: Leningrad, Litejnij district 50, appartment 18. The text on the second page is too small to translate, sorry

Just found this topic, sorry for late reply. But better later than never Have small piece of information about Melnikov. He received his first Red Banner 25228 in a rank of Major of State Security and in a position of the Head of Special Department (Osobij Otdel) of NKVD of 13th Army. The rank of Major of State Security was corresponding to Kombrig in 1939-40, later it corresponded to something between Colonel and Major-General. Special ranks for NKVD officers were canceled in 1945.

Thank you, gentlemen, for your kind words. Unfortunately, I missed another family relic. My great grandmother (from mother's side) was awarded with Lenin order. She was a high school principal for many years and probably was awarded in 1950th for a good service. I remember that order, I saw it many times when I was a kid. My great grandmother passed away when I was 5 or 6. Some years later we moved to bigger appartment and the order was sold out to partially cover the price we payed. Mother told me it was sold for 300 USD - very big money for USSR at that period. They sold it with a box and order book, so nothing left. I don't even remember the number. For five last years I'm trying to find it to redeem, but with no luck. I know only the name - Stroynikova Mariya Andreewna. But most likely the order was used either for jewellery black-market production or for dentistry (golden crowns or bridges). But I still have some hope. Who knows...

This is it, thanks for your attention. Also I have a group photo of cadets from Kiev Artillery School and my grandfather is among them. If somebody interested I can also post this photo, but I have to scan it first.

20 years of Victory medal certificate

50 years of Army - already retired from Army. I'm not sure, but I think he was one of the thousands of officers retired during Chrushev's "cutting".

40 years of Army

And finally his post-war medal certificates. Fortunately all his medals remained intact and none of them was missing. So I proudly keep them in my collection. This one is 30 years of Army

Second page

Awards record card Name: Chubaryh Nikolaj Ivanovich Military Rank: Senior Lieutenant Sex: Male Born: 1924 Place of birth: Voronezh Region, Ukolov subregion, village Y. Redkodub Party membership: Communist Party Member since August 1944 Education: High School Nationality: Russian In Red Army: since June 1942 Position at the time of receiving award: 39th Independent Radio-engineering Battalion of Air Defence, Company Commander Deputy for Political Matters Position at the present: Same as above Home address: Belorussian SSR, Minsk region, town of Slutsk, Proletarskaya street 70.