Avitas

Here is the buckle and strap, more information confirming its age as a wartime Modello Z..

Almost done, here is the rivet close-up...

Here is a close-up of the liner and padding, with the rust and sweat stains intact, good shot of the rivets as well..

Here is the interesting part, note the condition and wear of the liner and the felt pads in the helmet. This helmet was obviously worn for quite a bit as it shows sweat stains and aging (ugly black stains). There is rust between the liner and helmet, closer look at that next post.

the back,note two of the seven rivets have been shaved down before repainted...

The front, not much left of the original spanish badge holder...

Here is a close up of the decal. It appears to have been retouched with some sort of paint. I am no expert, but the original decal is white and it looks like a metallic gold paint (or cover decal?) was applied on top of it. It shows all the spidering and wear of an old decal I believe.

Hello again gents, finally got a new Mac and high speed internet, so I have a few new things to post over the next couple months (gradually). First up is this interesting wartime Spanish made Modello Z M42 style helmet converted to Wehrmacht. I know for certain this is a very early wartime production Modello Z due to the liner style and age of helmet. What is uncertain is when this helmet was converted to Nazi Germany. I will post a few detailed pics on the conversion to hopefully get some expert info on this one. The decal appears to be very old and the paint job is just as old. Also take note of the liner and how old the rivets are and how the paint job appears to have been done pre-application of the liner (or it was taken out long ago and reattached after painting). Not sure if its 1950's movie prop old or wartime old though First pic is the side view with the decal.

I myself just picked up a case identical to this one for my Souval EK1. Any ideas on the maker of this box or are they pretty generic? Thanks, Pat

Thanks Gordon, You're right, there is a seam on both sides indicating a three-piece construction. I noticed the seam before but assumed because there were two major pieces riveted together it was a 2-piece. Glad I picked this up, German helmets are getting harder and harder to find (I still pick up Canadian ww2 helmets all the time at junk sales etc, some for pretty cheap!). Thanks again Gordon for the info and if anyone else has comments feel free! Pat

So I can assume I am correct in my conclusion about it being the standard "Gladiator" 2 piece version. It is not a M40 or 42 as I have discovered in some research. Does anyone have any info on this type of helmet (when made, proper name etc.) or comments on it? I am going on the assumption that no news is good news and this is indeed a good original, as it seems to match on all accounts. Thanks for any help! Pat

Thanks for posting the pics Larry! From what information I have, my understanding is this is the standard 2-piece "Gladiator" style Lufstchutz helmet but I am not sure when it was produced. It has the stamp on the back but I am not sure on the total translation, "kopfweite 56" is the size, and I think the other markings are the official info. The rust doesn't look as bad in regular lighting, and it isn't as blue either without the bright camera lighting. I don't really have any doubts on its originality, but any further info or confirmation of my thoughts are welcome! Thanks again, Pat

Hello gentlemen, Just picked up this Luftschutz helmet which I am not sure if it is a M40 or 42. It looks similar to a few M42's posted but it has the "salt and pepper shaker" ventiliation like a couple other ones posted. The decal is in great shape, and the helmet has a bit of rust but not too bad. It was definitely worn for a while as the liner shows normal wear. Any information on this helmet is greatly appreciated. I will email Larry Strong the pics and being the cool guy he is he should post them on this thread shortly. Thanks and check back soon when the pics are posted! Pat

Hello gents, I spoke to the dealer and he was very sorry and he was surprised it was a repro as well, but I am exchanging it up (with a few extra bucks) for a nice Luftschutz H25 helmet I was checking out up there (I will be sure to post the pics when it gets here). I wasn't really worried as this dealer is a well known guy with a great reputation, but it's nice to know some dealers will offer a lifetime guarantee on any item. Thanks again for the expertise, and if anyone has a salty Destroyer badge available (pin missing I don't care!) I am definitely looking again now! Later, Pat

Thanks for posting Larry and thanks for the opinions gents, I have emailed the dealer in Edmonton (he is out of town so I don't know when he will check his email) in regards for a return/exchange. I sincerely hope he will honor his merchandise and we can resolve this. The patina is what threw me off, but after seeing originals this looks nothing like them. I will let you know how it works out. Thanks again, Pat

Hello Gents, I just emailed the scans to Larry Strong so he should probably be posting them soon when he gets the message. If he hasn't replied for a couple days maybe I can email them to Martin or Gordon or Nasredep to post (again, my old MAC doesnt allow me to upload pics to GMIC, I'm very sorry). I have a couple close ups of the maker mark and pin/hinge to have a look at as well. I spoke to the dealer and let him know my concerns and he said he would stick by his items so hopefully that means an exchange if this one turns out to be no good. Thanks for all the help! Pat

Thanks Gordon and Nasredep for your responses, I recently bought the badge and by your feedback I should probably ask for a refund or exchange, as I called the well-respected dealer from Edmonton and he said he stood by his items, so I assume that means I can exchange it. I will try to post pics first if he refuses the refund, but I will try to post pics because it looks and feels like and original to me, the way the maker mark is printed and the hinge and pin are the same as the write-up on W-Awards forum, the catch is different, but I am fairly new to the field still. I will try to get back on this soon! Thanks again, Pat

Just out of curiosity, what are your guesses on what this badge was cast from? Was this a cast copy of an original maker? Why I ask is I have a Schwerin badge that appears to be the type this was cast from. Sorry I have no pics right now but mine is definitely a much sharper detailed version of this design with proper hinge and pin set-up. Any ideas? Pat

Thanks for the response Gordon, I will take it with caution for sure. I wish I could afford a new Mac right now, but since I am still stuck with my 1999 IMac (a relic!) I can't post pics yet (until I bug a fellow member at least, which I hate doing). The hinge and pin are exactly the same as the standard Schwerin one pictured on various forums, and it is of a tombak make up. The gold finish is a very salt-water oxidized "green" with only a bit of untainted gold on the inner edges, and the black oxidized finish has been mostly polished off, it apparently came from a vet in New Brunswick, Canada who had done this himself. It has no casting lines, is die-struck and the measurements match 100%. The only difference, which brings us back to being relevant for the thread, is the stamped Schwerin Berlin 68 maker mark (In uneven lettering I might add) in the same font as the relief version. Is it not possible that in the mid years they might have made a few with this style stamping, and then switched back to the relief for the zinkers? Some might say this is wishful thinking, but there are many unmarked variants attributed to most of the major makers, so why not a variant on the maker mark? I only make this point because all of the other tests and comparisons match, and it just feels to me to be an original good badge, it is a far cry from any of the known fakes in my collection (scratch test to see if there is bright metal underneath a "fake" finish came up with more old metal, details of the wreath and tombak metal make up are same, the hinge and pin set-up is exact as well as the circular plate used for the catch and second hook are there, oxidization is authentic, and the edges and back match what you see on good badges, etc). Thanks for any help on this maker mark question. Keep your stick on the ice, Pat

Along these lines, did mid to later war pieces include more stampings of makers marks (opposed to reliefs)? Specifically, I have seen a Schwerin maker mark (stamp marked SCHWERIN, BERLIN68) stamped in the same font as the raised early versions on a nice Destroyer badge. The pin, hinge and catch all match, as well as the design, to the Schwerin type mentioned as the late war type. I have not been able to come up with much info on whether Schwerin marked Destroyer badges this way. The metal doesn't seem to have a great deal of zinc in it also. Any ideas? Thanks, Pat

Don's first example (post #15) is very similar to my example in posts 1 and 2. The pebbling in each are very orderly and the examples seem pretty similar. The maker mark and pin are almost a perfect match as well. Apparently there is some discussion about the elongated makers mark version and the M9 versions, is there anything to know about Don's and mine examples? I assume these examples are known to be legit (as far as we know), as far as I've gathered. Any comments on the similarities? Cheers, Pat

Hmmm, interesting ideas. It looks like to me it could be "Sterling" after all, as I may have made a mistake in typing! It definitely looks like an E. Doesn't really help much with ID'ing it though, maybe someone else will have some definite info! Later, Pat

Fleamarkets may not be as dependable or have as much selection as at militaria shows, but sometimes you can get VERY lucky if you keep your eyes open. Small town fleamarkets are the best (many around here in Southern BC, Canada) as not as many fakes have flooded the smaller places I find as compared to Vancouver or Calgary. Many vets of all countries retire here and fleamarkets always have something to pick up. Nice finds! Pat

As an owner of some slightly ugly, pinless, catchless and damaged pieces, even I wouldn't touch one in that condition, real or not! Did someone buy that one? Later, Pat

Hi Alonso, Can you resize the pics to about 9" or so and we can get a better look at it. The second one looks a little better than the first but it's hard to tell with the small pics. The first one shares many characteristics to my bad cast fake IAB's, so I would agree with the previous gents on that one. I too had to learn the hard way on many badges, but the lessons have been invaluable and my eye has improved with time (at least a bit anyways!) Later, Pat