Bilco

Hi Gents, See an example here - http://www.liverpoolmedals.com/Cuba-unofficial-issue-with-no-hallmarks.html Bill

Hi Gents, My latest acquisition - but what exactly is it? Obverse: Reverse: The close-ups: Obverse: This seems to be Laslo's Unofficial Type 1 - it has the Dubois name in very shallow strike at the bottom, and the 'LA' mark inside the wreath .... .... but it has the thick wire suspension of the Unofficial Type 1a. Reverse: This has the 'LA' mark at the bottom of the central wreath quite clearly. The striking seems to show that the upper and lower parts of the die were not aligned properly - there is a lip on the edge at the 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock, showing that the obverse part of the die was offset slightly to the left: 3 o'clock view, obverse uppermost: 9 o'clock view, obverse uppermost: In the 6 o'clock view the off-set of the upper and lower portions is clear: At the 9 o'clock the upper part is thicker than the lower, and the the 3 o'clock the lower is thicker. There is a change-over at the 6 o'clock, with the overhang dropping down to touch the reverse, then immediately starting again high up with the lower portion projecting. Not too visible in the photos, but clear under a glass, are the vertical striations on the edge that seem to indicate that the piece was die-struck. The planchet is 37mm diameter, and 2.2mm thick. The thick wire suspension has a little 'pip' on top: Reading Laslo I believe that the Czechs used the Belgian design before the Government agreed their own design and production started. Mine has what looks like a Czech-type ribbon - there are two holes a little down from the top, which makes me think that the two-pronged attachement device has been moved. Was the Alexander Leisek-produced medal a high-quality piece, or was it a cheaply-made, quick expedient? Other photos of the Unofficial Type 1 I've seen seem to have surface flaws - the view of the obverse on mine also shows a flaw on the surface - a piece of swarf in the die? So, what do I have? Is it a poorly-struck Leisek piece - combining features of the Unofficial Types 1 and 1a - or a cast copy made by someone who hadn't known the difference between the 1 and 1a? All comments welcome. Bill

Hi Gents, I was lucky enough to be able to buy this Type 2 Portugal vic from a fellow GMIC member - it's a classy medal. Obverse: Reverse: And the close-ups: Obverse: Reverse: Lambert - I tried your tip of scanning the medal, which worked well for the overall view, but wasn't of good enough quality for the close-ups. It might be that the ball suspension meant that they weren't quite in focus for enlargement. Bill

Hi Lambert - At least we can console ourselves that we weren't fighting each other for it! Bill

Hi Gents, Well, I lost out on the bidding for the Cuba vic I showed. It was not of the best quality (!) as the overall photo shows - At some time someone has replaced the suspension ring with a smaller one that is a different colour, the ribbon is very odd (possibly the Cuban Order of Military Merit), and it hangs from a strange suspender - it has a safety-pin on the back. If I had secured it I was intending to try to restore it to something like its original condition, with a proper ring and a French ribbon. However, what are your views on this sort of thing? Would the 'restored' medal have been worth more or less that it cost as shown - $200? Is this sort of restoration acceptable for the vics? I know from other sections of the Forum that medals are re-ribboned and Imperial German bars with medals missing from the existing ribbons have them replaced with the same type. No doubt the price reflects the condition it's in - there was another on the US eBay for about $1200, and UK medal dealers are offering it for £695. Would I have had a worth-while restoration project? Bill

Hi Lambert, It's interesting that no-one has yet owned up to having seen a Type 1! It raises the possibility that Laslo hadn't either, and was mis-informed about it's suspension. I enlarged the section of the photo of the Admiral that you posted to show his medals It seems to me that his Victory medal - I think it's the second from the left on his bar - appears to have a thicker suspension than I would expect to see if he had the wire type, so it could be that he has the Type 1. It's a shame the French site http://www.medailles...-interalli.html doesn't say where the private collection with the cylinder-type suspension is to be found. It says that it has the Rio Mint marking on the rim so, unless it's a very clever copy, it should be official. I guess we need someone to post a photo of a Type 1 so we can see what's what. Bill

Bore Da, BorgCymru, The badge is for the NATO Allied Force Central Europe - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Force_Command_Brunssum Bill

Hi Jim, Many thanks for your opinion on the Cuba vic. That French web site is very interesting - lots of good solid info to read through, and the odd unusual item to find. Bill

HI Gents, In the light of those rough sand-cast copies - do you think this one is the real deal? It's a bit beat up, but it has BRONZE and the AC in a triangle mark on the edge. Any comments welcome. Bill

Hi Gents, Laslo says that the Brazilian vic, in both Type 1 and Type 2, has a wire suspension. I've recently come across this French site with pictures if all the Allies vics, and for Brazil it shows one with a cylinder suspension - http://www.medailles1914-1918.fr/bresil-interalli.html So, my question - is this a fake, a repro, a French-produced Unofficial type, or what? It has the proper diacritical marks on the C and A of Civilisacao. Bill

A fine example of his poor-quality offerings. Bill

Yep - another poor casting. Pitted and low on detail. Bill

Hi Jim, Yes, the Greek vic he's offering looks to be a very poor casting - very pitted, as they all are. And a very strange ribbed ring in the suspension. I see he has 4 vics offered in total, including the Siam version. Bill

Many thanks for the comments, gents. It's always good to get a positive reaction to a newly-acquired item! Lambert - thanks for the tip about the scanner - I'll give it a try. I envy you getting a Portugal vic - maybe one day. Rob - the ribbon is in very good condition, almost new-looking. It's quite short behind the fold, and there is no sign of any holes it it for the pin mounting. Yep - triangles present and correct! Bill

Hi Gents, My Greek Official Type (or Type 1) arrived today. As promised, here are the photos: Obverse: Reverse: In reality it's closer to the colour of Rob's in the last post, but I took the photos in poor artificial light, so had to bring them up a bit. Any comments welcome. Bill

I see the medal on eBay was sold with just one bid, placed at the last minute. Oh well, I've got an Offical Type coming from another source - I'll posts photos when it arrives. Bill

Hi Jim, Wow! A great reference source - many thanks for posting the images. Is this part of your collection? Bill

I have seen some postings about the marks of various French medal manufacturers on the Forum, but don't recall seeing any mention of the firm of V. Canale, who produced the Official Greek WW1 Victory Medal. If anyone can post the information, or point me to where I can find it, I shall be very grateful. Bill

I see that medal on e-bay didn't sell. The starting price was £100, which probably didn't help, or maybe people had doubts about it ... Just for the sake of completeness I compared the Official Type to my Unofficial Type 1 There are some detail differences in the rim on obverse and reverse, but the bottom corners of the tablet on the reverse look very similar, and both have those two triangles on the rim of the reverse. Bill

Hi Jonathan - Yes, anything that came to hand. I one case I used a page of newspaper rolled up and flattened! Bill

Hi Jonathan, I can only speak for my own experience. I put the strips into my uniform hat myself - they weren't issue in the RAF, and I suspect the Soviets didn't issue their hats with the strips in already. They would only be fitted if required - I have a Soviet Army visored cap from the 1990s that doesn't have any card strips fitted. Bill

Hi Jonathan, When I wore uniform hats of this design I put strips of thick card behind the sweatband to make them fit better if they were slightly large. I bought a very up-market straw hat in Italy a few years ago, and the shop-keeper fitted trips of cork sheet behind the band for the same reason. I take a 6 7/8ths hat size, and I can't always find hats to fit! Bill

Many thanks, Jim. Now I'll get a glass of red wine, sit back, and chill out! Bill

Hi Jim, Your're absolutely right - the copy I posted the link to is totally the wrong colour, and should easily be spotted as a fake. It's a bit scary how accurate the casting is, though! I took these photos from the web site of a dealer here in England, Medal-Medaille - http://www.medal-med...&sort=2a&page=2 The top two sets of obverse/reverse are both said to be Official type, while the bottom set are Unofficial Type 2. The middle medal is the same as the one on e-bay I posted - http://www.ebay.co.u...984.m1438.l2649 There are differences between the top two sets. On the obverse, the rim is more regular and well-defined on the middle set ; both are wider than the Unofficial. Also, the lower garland in the 3 o'clock is sharper. On the reverse, the rim is again more well-defined in the middle set, more akin to the Unofficial. Also, the bottom corners of the tablet with the names of the combattants are different in each set; on the top set they are thick and merge into the rim, on the middle set they are sharp and distinct, while on the bottom set they are thick and distinct. Another difference between the top two sets is that the ribbed cylinder in the suspension is split in the middle set and not in the top set. It seems to me that the top two sets are made from different dies. There are also differences in the colour of the metal of the planchet, though this may be due in part to the lighting under which the photograph was taken. So, are those top two both Official types made from different dies, or is the middle one a Reissue, rather like the French Morlon reissue, which is in a brighter metal, or is the middle one a Reproduction? Or am I getting a bit obsessive about these things? Bill

Hi Gents, Just for a laugh I enlarged the photo of the top of the reverse of my Greek vic - - and I can convince myself that those marks I keep harping on about are isosceles triangles - and what's more, I seem to see in the right-hand one a letter M. Could it be that they are maker's marks, or the mark of the die sinker? Then I found on the dreaded e-bay someone selling a copy of the Official Greek vic - http://www.ebay.co.u...=item43ac8c0175 - and I'm sure I can see on the enlarged photo of the reverse the marks again! It's said to be 'die cast' - I suppose, if you are very good at making a mould from a genuine original, the casting will show every mark .... Bill