Spasm

Karl's awards - Ost 1942, KvK 1943 and EKII Apr 1945

Karl's unit (in the light blue pen) Supply Battalion 557, 2nd Company. His wife Hedwig of Wuppertal which coincidentally is the title of his last leave in 1944.

Gents and Gentesses I obtained this Soldbuch just the other day and have been painstakingly translating and trying to find the history behind it. The Soldbuch is for a Karl Goetzmann originally fron Berlin but it seems lived in Wuppertal with his wife Hedwig. He was awarded, as can be seen on the awards page the Ost Medal, KvK with swords and the Spange to the EKII as he had already been awarded the EKII in WW1, the awards can also be seen on his photo, along with the Hindenburg Cross with swords. (The photo was before he was awarded the Spange.) I think his unit was 2nd Company Nachschub (Supply) Battalion, as can be seen on the following photos, which (correct me here please) was attached to the Army Group Centre. Anyway, this is the bit I could do with some help. On page 8a, equipment issue, you can see from the photos that he was issued with rifle, pistol, bayonet, compass etc but that they have all been crossed out and alongside the date 11 May 1945. And then to my shock (when I looked it up in the German Military Abbreviations, MIS War Dept book) the word "gest" which is short for gestorben or died. The surrender of German forces was complete in Europe on 7th May with some pockets still holding out. The Battle of Prague and then Slivice continued for a while as German forces frantically tried to surrender to nearby American forces while defending against the Soviet massed armies. The last German force capitulated in the early hours of 12 May with 6000 captured by the Soviets. Could Karl have been killed on the very last day of the war after joining up in 1939 !!!!!! Please tell me I'm wrong.

AlecH It looks like one of these. Its a breast eagle from 1935, worn by enlisted men and NCOs. The backing was "badge-cloth" abzeichentuch, a close-woven velvetish fabric; this was originally grey, but in late 1935 the renamed Wehrmacht Heer changed the color to a dark blue-green called flaschengrun (bottle-green). Spaz

Oh and by the way just in case you were wondering. The map below shows the Gau districts of Germany. They are not the same as the SA Gruppe area maps I've seen on most dagger collector web pages. It says Gruppe in most of the SA Ausweis I've seen and doesn't mention Gau, so I believe the stamped area marks on the early daggers are Gruppe marks not "Gau" marks.

Right, thats that solved then. i've looked at all the Ausweis that I can lay my hands on and have read everything I can find on the subject short of translating every bit of german on babelfish from within the records at the Bundesarchiv SA files. (took some time copying small paragraphs into the translation box I can tell you) Nordmark and Berlin daggers (or any others with the same configuration for that matter) that have the --/-- prior to the 5 digit numbers are the Sturm and Standarte (most Ausweis have this configuration within them) followed by the individual's SA Ausweis number. So, for example, a dagger stamp marked 23/85 Nm 32451 will be Sturm 23, Standarte 85, Gruppe Nordmark and Ausweis Number 32451. Franken daggers (or others) that have the --/----- are the Standarte Number and then the Ausweis. So, for example, like mine above, a dagger stamp marked 15/22077 Fr will be Standarte 15, Ausweis Number 22077 and Gruppe Franken. So, anyone have a copy of SA Franken Ausweis Number 22077 I can have a look at? ;)

So, this Truppfuhrer (staff sergeant), according to SA rank insignia I have found on t'tinternet, should have two pips on his left collar and, as he is a sturm member should have Sturm/Standarte on his right collar. Looking at the stamp with the eagle - his Sturmbann is III which is then follwed by the Standarte which is 21. Further down the Ausweis is his Sturm which is 21 followed by his Standarte which again is 21. So, his collar should say 21/21. Senior staff would have Sturmbann which is III followed by the Standarte which is 21, hence III/21. I'm assuming Truppfuhrer isn't senior staff. Looking at his photo I can't see anything - so that helps then. But, any old end up, it looks like there was also a Standarte 21 in Franken. So, if Philipp Wurzburger liked everyone to have stamped numbered daggers would Anton's have been 21/44273? Am I talking to myself here? come on guys help a bit I'm just getting lost :unsure:

A Franken, Brigade 78 Ausweis:

Right, now I've found these (which sort of go together to understand the Identification paper):

I really like the hooter on the car, no jay walking with that one :speechless1:

This is Philipp Wurzburger, Brigadefuhrer of Brigade 78 after being promoted from leader of Standarte 14 in 1937. He was a politician in the NSDAP and was gold party badge holder 65782. Apparently he was released from captivity in 1953.

Well, still looking.... It seems as though only two brigades were in the Franken Gruppe - Brigade 78 based in Wurzburg and Brigade 79 based in Nurnberg. So, it seems as though I'm looking for a Standarte. I think both Standarte 14 and 15 were based in Nurnberg (only mentions of reserve SA in german web pages but no actual direct evidence, so would be nice to see some) and Philip Wurzbacher was the Brigade Leader. I've seen both 14/----- and 15/----- stamped on SA daggers so (a bit of a leap of faith here) it may have been Wurzbacher who ordered the numbering of the daggers. So, would the Ausweis numbers match the dagger numbers in Gruppe Franken? Does anybody have any? Is there a list somewhere of SA member's numbers? Spaz

Still looking for evidence and have come across a paper by Dr martin Schuster who seems to favour the 5 digit number being the SA Member's Ausweis (document of identification) number. There were no regulations regarding individualisation to daggers but some Gruppe seemed to have some form of similarity in stamping the cross guards - Berlin and Nordmark daggers (that are stamped) have the Sturm and Standarte stamped giving a --/-- type number prior to the 5 digit number, while others have just a double digit number prior to the 5 digit. Still searching, help would be greatly accepted. Spaz

Mervyn Good insight on the etchings reminding you of Roman Legions. Bellona was the Roman Goddess of War who was usually depicted wearing a helmet. I believe 1783 was when the British had to officially recognise the United States at theTreaties of Versialles and pulled the last troops from New York. I can't quite make out the writing but I suppose they could be referring to that. Even though the French figured they'd beaten the British at last it almost bankrupted France and led to the revolution with the rest being history. Never enough time to get into everything is there. Thanks for showing these wonderful things and some money 50 years ago! Cheers Spaz

Gents Not sure if this shouldn't go into Africa but I suppose the Union Flag is present. But it certainly wasn't a colony at that time. Spaz

AlecH I know I'm a bit late but I've just seen this. Assuming I can read the numbers - its a M7/116 (albeit a bit futher up the blade than I've seen before) - Lovely NSKK by Franz Frenzel. Don't see many of these that were made in the Czech rep. Nice one Spaz

Well, it seems as though I wasn't completely correct. I went to have a nose round on the webby search and found that the FN FAL has had 3 types of bayonet - Type A, B and C. The first, Type A, was innovative due to having springs in the butt to give a sort of recoiless action, Type B, which looks like the one you have and supposedly quite rare with the thinner prongs for the slender flash suppressor, Type C, produced due to the others being difficult to manufacture and expensive, which is the same as the R1 bayonet picture I loaded. http://worldbayonets...l_bayonets.html So, any old end up, your bayonet and my bayonet probably could've fitted both the FN FAL and the R1. Depending on the flash suppressor. Sorry, based my comments on the cheap one I was issued with. Always learning. Spaz

R1 bayonet

Mervyn The bayonet you have is from an FN FAL not an R1. The U and M stamp is for Union of SA and Military, I've seen these with SAP - South African Police - stamped as well. Yours has been stamped over deliberately with loads of "Zeds" to remove the serial number and the UM - something done when they were "passed on" I believe. R1 bayonets have round butts and are similarly stamped M inside a U with a serial number, you can sometimes find ARMSCOR when manufactured in SA. The R4, which came after my time, is a 5.56mm compared to the 7.62mm shoot through walls R1. Cheers Spaz

Still haven't found any real evidence other than reading Ralf's book again. (As it's translated from German the sentences read a bit funny in some places - using babelfish on the original German is no help either). But he says that the 15 is the Brigade number. Does anybody know where Brigade 15 were based? I'm sure there were a few places as there were getting on for 4 million SA members at its height.

Wonderful collection and good display. Is this in your house? And, it may be the light but does the label say "WARPIORS"? Thanks fop shaping

Gents I need to read all this again once the first one has settled in. Just fascinating, I'll be back after going to have a lay down. Spaz

Often tempted with getting a few of these myself as they are just fantastic "in real life" and when held. It's hard enough for me to find the room for gear on the wall let alone trying to find the space to keep and display helmets. Where do you keep them and how do you display? Think I'm looking for a reason Spaz

Oh, and by the way, I have no problem with the supplier of the ring - it was very cheap and I wanted to have it in hand as it looked to be a good copy. If I had had a problem, I would have received a full refund which I'm sure the dealer would have been happy to supply once advised of his error in his description. It was only his description that was out, not the price. If held along with a real one it's fairly noticeable which one is correct. But just looking at pictures on some auction or web site could mislead some buyers so this may aid if you fall under the spell to buy one on impulse. Mind you, a couple of grand on impulse is a steep impulse. But I have been known to fall for the odd motorcycle or two in my time :whistle:

And the final one of the death's head. So, any old end up, whats the give away?