pieter1012

Hi All, I haven't visited the Mikasa for some time, but originally the awards displayed in the middle section, and of which Dieter shows the photographs, are the orders of fleet admiral Prince Fushimi. In one of the pictures (#9) you can also see the ultra rare non Christian version of the Russian order of St Andreas, which was never awarded to admiral Togo. Just after the war, the well known Japanese collector Nakabori bought all the orders, including the documents, of admiral Togo from his family, who were in dire financial straits like all military families. When SCAP came to Japan all Japanese military were dismissed without pension or other income from the State. I presume also the relatives of deceased military, such as Togo, inadvetrrtedly also did not receive pension anymore. Togo came from a modest family and left no big money when he died. In the books Nakabori published some of Togo's orders and certificates were always published, such as his collar of the Chrysanthemum, Golden Kite and British order of Merit (military). Mr. Nakabori used to have an antique shop in Ginza (Hattoya) many years ago which I visted several times when I was living in Japan and once in a while he would display some of Togo's orders. I speak of many years ago and Mr. Nakabori must have passed away already. Reading Verdun's post and if he is certain they were Togo's orders, apparently his family has sold or donated the Togo orders to the Mikasa foundation, and I will certainly visit the Mikasa when I visit Japan again next year. Pieter

Hi Don, thank you very much for your interesting and useful comments. It´s a pity that numbers awarded of the Order of Military Merit are not available, although Ingraham does mention the numbers awarde to the Dutch forces during the Korean War. I guess he obtained them from our Ministry of Defence, where all forein awards to Dutch personell are recorded. Best regards, Pieter

Hi Dieter, I think it is the common one, but when I´m back end of November I will make sure since I have both versions and can compare yours with them.Ii am surprised by the high number of your document, I didn´t know so much were issued. I also have a document, but as far as I recall the number is in the hundreds. Pieter

Hi Nick, indeed a nice medal with a historical significance. I am now in Spain (visiting our grandchildren again) so have no access to my collection and literature, but I´m sure you know there are two strikes of this medal, of which one of them is seen less frequent. This one is thicker, the leaves are a bit different and the lettering on the backside is also different. Dieter, I agree with Nick, please show your medal and document with us, I am curious to know which number it has. Pieter

Hi Nick, nice pictures, but I think that the neckbadge of Kobashi is the Rising Sun, part of the grand officer's set he is wearing. Reflection of the light on the cabochon of the Rising Sun makes it look like a Taeguk, but the suspension is clearly the paulownia. Pieter

Nick, Nevertheless I envy you with this nice acquisition. Pieter

Although both were fleet admirals, Prince Fushimi was head of the Fushimi branch of the Imperial family and cousin of Emperor Hirohito. I guess that is the reason for the difference. Pieter

Hi Dave, thank you for your reaction. I took some pictures of the White elephant, plus a good portrait photo of my great uncle in uniform, on which the WE type 2 can clearly be distinguished. I have also taken a picture of the certificate in Thai language (actually the date of award was 1929). Now the problem; I don't seem to be able to place these pictures on this site, always get the message that it is too big for some reason. I have to ask my friend Nick (Japan X) to place them for me, as he was so kind enough to to that before with the Japan thread. Anyway, I hope you can see them soon. The pictures of my great uncle in uniform are only from the period 1928-'32, when he was governor of Mid-Java. After that he retired from the civil service and returned to the Netherlands. He received some other orders and they all came with the estate when he died. It included a set of miniatures, to be worn with white tie and that has the 2d type WE too. It is very unlikely that he had them made later, as after retirement he lived in the country side with no official functions anymore (I include also a picture of this). Regards, Pieter

Hi Dave, I was surprised to read that the Thai medals Dept writes that type 2 of the White Elephant started in 1941. I presume that is the same as the present one with silver outer petals and a less elaborate crown suspension. My great uncle was Governor of Mid-Java in the early 1930's (still Dutch East indies then) and received in 1930 the third class of the WE which I have now and is the second type, although of much nicer manufacture than the present day ones. Also, pictures of him in uniform show him clearly wearing the 2d type. So in my opinion the 2d type was introduced earlier than the Thai Medal Dept states. Regards, Pieter

Hi Nick, a very interesting thread on a little known order. As far as I know, in most Latin american countries the sash in the colours of the flag of the country with the coat of arms attached on it, is the official insignia of the Presidency. So, if a President is inaugurated this sash is betowed on him by either his predessor or the Chief Justice. It has no connection with a grandcross sash of an order of that country. Regards, Pieter.

Hi Nick, I made a mistake, actually one document I have is the first class of the Rising Sun, awarded on 24 August 1911 to Ambassador Kato Takaaki, and the second class Rising Sun, awarded 13th June 1911 to Major-general Akashi Motojiro. Most documents without emperor Meiji's signature because of sickness were issued between 1904 and his death in 1912. A total of 2339 "blank" documents were issued during this period, the most being for the Golden Kite 5th class (1639). For the Rising Sun first class 14, and second class 38.This figure is also only for japanese. Pieter

Hi Nick, very interesting and scarce documents. Both during the reign of emperors Meiji and Taisho sometimes order documents were issued without the emperor's signature when the emperor was too ill to take care of State matters. The documents do mention (contrary to those who don't have the emperor's signature anyway) "under my sign manual and affixed with the seal of State". I have in my collection two Rising Sun 2d class documents, issued by emperor Meiji, but without his signature. Unfortunately, I have not yet such document issued under emperor Taisho, although he was many times very ill before crown prince Hirohito became officially the Prince-Regent. When Prince Hirohito became Regent it was formally decided that he would sign all official documents with his father's name as well as his own, as his emperor Taisho was officially still the sovereign and all documents were issued under his name. During this Regency period, Prince Hirohito signed 866 award documents under emperor Taisho's and his own name. Of the Sacred Treasure 1st class as shown by you, a total of 60 were issued. These are only the numbers of documents awarded to Japanese. I have no numbers for those awarded to foreigners during the Regency. I must have missed this offer out (on which site did you see it?), so I didn't even have the chance to count to three, I certainly would have liked them in my collection. Pieter

Hi Nick, my temporary document for the Golden Kite 5th class (mentioned in the earlier thread you quoted) is exactly the same as yours, only the concurrently awarded Rising Sun is a 6th class as the recipient was a lieutenant of the army, and of course the different date. The backside has the same stamp, with number 136. I don't have the cash award document but I am sure that my document was also awarded posthumously. Pieter

If you look at the pictures of Chiang wearing the Blue Sky and White Sun, one can clearly see that the medal had a Japanese style hook and eye on the ribbon to attach to the uniform. Also, the well known Victory medals awarded by Chiang I have seen, all have an hook and eye hanging system. The medal that came up for auction has a brooch type attachment. Pictures of Chiang at older age see him wearing the Blue Sky and White Sun medal as second one in a bar of four medals. In the Chiang Kai-Chek Memorial Hall in Taipei, the generalissimo's uniform which he wore at older age is exhibited with as only medal the Blue Sky and White Sun. Even if the medal at Spink's Hong-Kong auction really belonged to Chiang, I doubt whether he ever wore this one. Pieter

Richard, It could indeed be a Japanese made set, although the case and sash are in my opinion typical Chinese made. I tried to attach pictures, but was told that the file was too big to upload, even with a single picture. I will try again tomorrow, otherwise I will have to ask Nick's assistance again. Pieter

I have in my collection as second class of the Striped Tiger, with case, which has no seals or digital marks. The back of the star is blank and the rear of the sashbadge has a red enamelled medaillon with gold Chinese characters indicating the class. The enamel is beautiful. I bought it in Japan and I am sure it was awarded to a Japanese. Is anyone familiar with this type? Pieter

Hi Nick, firstly a very nice group of documents. Mizuno was awarded also the fifth class of the order of the Rising Sun or Sacred Treasure (his document says above his name; kun 5-to which means 5th class order without specifying which one) and the 7th class of the Golden Kite (ko 7-kyu). Let me add that most likely he had the 5th class Rising sun, since together with the award of the Golden Kite, as far as I know, always the Rising Sun was simultaneously awarded. I would not be surprised if he had also one or two civil commemorative medals. regards, Pieter

Nick, Eduard or Keibel, I will not be picky if I could get one, but unfortunately way beyond my budget. Pieter

I wonder whether any forum member has the number of the Korean order of Military Merit awarded to the United States forces during the Korean war? I am looking for the numbers on the Taeguk, Ulchi, Chungmu and Wharang. I know these orders were again subdivided in classes (with gold star, etc) but I am interested in the total numbers per order. Ingraham in his excellent book on Honors and awards of the Korean war (OMSA 1993) mentions Korean awards to several nations, but unfortunately not of the Korean awards to Americans. I will be grateful to any forum member that can help me out. Pieter

without examining the interior it is indeed difficult to determine whether the case is late war or postwar. But looking at the characters on the lid I suspect it is postwar because the late war cases would be in silver and the earlier cases have a thicker gold lettering. For what its worth. Pieter

Hi Nick, good to see you back again and looking forward to your valuable contributions to this Japan forum. Pieter

Hi Paul, thank you very much for this useful information. regards, Pieter

Hi Paul, do you also have the number of Distinguished Service Crosses awarded to french military during the first WW? Thanks and regards, Pieter

Nick, very nice pictures of this very rare non Christian version of the order of St Andrew. The only other one I saw, was the St. Andrew given to the Japanese fleet admiral prince Fushimi. This St. Andrew is without diamonds and has no initial of the Tsar in the middle, actually it has a natural fat belly. The set is exhibited on the battleship Mikasa in Japan. The princ was lt. commander on the Mikasa under admiral Togo during the famous battle of Tsushima (Russo-Japanese war). The next time I visit the Mikasa I will try to make pictures of the set. Pieter

Nick, I wonder whether this Kite star was made by Nakata, if he is the one you mean by "familiar manufacturer". As far as I know Nakata always puts the chararacters for replica on his copies. This one has no inscription. Pieter