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ThaiDave

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    French Government of Indochina

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  1. Hi All Here is a "covered ear" "repro" from a European auction house some time back. The dealer was advised in advance, but sold as genuine anyway. Cheers
  2. pics of copy 3 - seems to be one of the $30 "museum" copies coming from UK 1 out of 4 was really genuine ...
  3. HI All Here are examples of 3 fakes and 1 genuine sold by a well known dealer. Unfortunately all were advertised as genuine. The dealer of course knew the fakes were not genuine, as the pricing was totally different. Cheers pics of copy 1 - covered ear (Laslo "Repro Type 1") pics of copy 2 - also covered ear (Laslo "Repro Type 1") - very similar to the above
  4. Hi Nick The medal says: VÌ THẾ HỆ TRẺ = FOR THE YOUNG GENERATION ĐOÀN THANH NIÊN LAO ĐỘNG HỒ CHÍ MINH 1931-1971 = Ho Chi Minh Youth Union of Labor 1931-1971 So presumably a commemorative medal for 40 years of Ho Chi Minh Labor Youth Union. It doesn't really appear to be a medal from the period 1970s however. Presumably a later issued badge for HCM labor youth union. There are numerous such commemorative medals / badges. I have about 100 of similar modern commemorative medals (but not this one !) now in progress adding to my new SRV/DRV medals website, working pages for commemorative medals section starting here : http://www.vietnammedals.org/en/cm/index.html (warning: Its a work in progress.) Rgds Dave
  5. Hi Ralstona I find a little more about the online BODMR. Others asked about this, and the official reply was that it cannot be made public. However, you can buy the book. Go figure... https://forum.ouvre-boite.org/t/bulletin-officiel-des-decorations-medailles-et-recompenses/271/16 So for now have to find a location that has the book. Presumable any major French library or archive. Rgds Dave 18090683053e30f485b6c4edbb3fed99a498a651.pdf
  6. Ralstona, Its a little late to find this thread, but I'll add my 2 cents. All of these medals I found in Vietnam. So I'm more inclined to think that they are awarded in Vietnam, rather than in France and taken back. Therefore, perhaps they are from French companies which continued in Vietnam after 1954. Its interested to check the actual citation in the official journal. I will look further towards this. Then it will be clear. I see that this was started in 1951, but as yet I don't find online access. Its not in Gallica as I can see, and as per French Widipedia it is not online (but info from 2010) https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulletin_officiel_des_décorations,_médailles_et_récompenses https://www.senat.fr/questions/base/2010/qSEQ100312713.html If existed, I think it should be here: https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/contenu/menu/publications-officielles/bulletins-officiels Therefore, one perhaps at this time needs to find a place which has a subscription to this official bulliten. Rgds Dave P/S It's my site - www.indochinamedals.com 😉
  7. Hi Micke I don't know if that is good explanation for certificates - seems odd that they would have so many extra documents printed up that they would last for another 30 years. And then the documents would get used up just the time they do a re-write of the order regulations, and coincidentally the old wisdom of the date for the type change at this time. (1941 was what I had heard decades ago as people told me also). Yes, the documents for all grades are with the highest class of the award. Have you found any new information on this ? I got a translation of the Thai government book in English and read thru again. It says as we know from the regulations the design change in 1909. But I just don't see it fully in practice, except for some pictures as have been posted. 1909 to 1941 isn't a short time, and so I would expect a lot more of the new model found in old patina and more pictures of Thais as well as foreigners - and I just don't see that much. Maybe those years the awards were few, and therefore not much around. Maybe not everyone changed to the new model, and 1941 was a hard reset to the new model. So I think it still needs more research how it played out in practice. Rgds Dave
  8. HI Micke, (deleting my repeated discussion, which we already had over here) Rgds Dave
  9. This is 3. Mike Shank copy - some features thicker, especially Thai characters on the reverse. The details are not as sharp. The Thai characters are all not as nice - I suppose it could have been done by a Thai, but it is not as nice. (Its not exactly how I learned to write, but some of the characters are more correct.) Some of the upper accents are very thick (flattened ? maybe it was smashed ? Maybe someone has other examples to compare)
  10. Hi All As part of a discussion on ebay, I took a look at Thailand Korea United Nations UN Service Medal variations I have observed. A quick filter for type is the small gap on the suspension knob, however there are many other small differences such as the map details, lettering, etc. 1. Type wide gap on suspension knob 2. Type narrow gap on suspension knob 2a. Type narrow gap on suspension knob, finer strike (presumably earlier ?) 3. Mike Shank copy - all features thicker, especially Thai characters on the reverse. Perhaps others have additional examples, information about these examples, or other comments. Rgds, Dave ________________________________________________________________________________________ This is 1. Type wide gap on suspension knob This is 2. Type narrow gap on suspension knob This is 2a. Type narrow gap on suspension knob, finer strike (presumably earlier ?) It is very similar to the above type 2. But the details much finer. I received it is poor condition, and had to clean it up to get this condition.
  11. Hi Micke Officially it is light blue. But I have never seen any ribbons still light blue. The ribbon itself fades, as even in-between where there is no sun, it is also faded. Some even have slight green tint. I have seen the 2nd pic you posted, but I don't remember where it was from - I presume it is colored. Picture from 1992 Thai Medals Department book : Picture from Thai Medals Department 1970 book (oldest color pic I have): Most unfaded ribbon pic I have Typical fading on all sides of ribbon - not sun fading on front only ( I didn't try to peer inside the threads - might be useful for less oxidized color ?) Most I've seen nearly all completely faded, however this one I can see the internal fibers still some greenish color Miniature Rgds Dave www.indochinamedals.com
  12. Hi MIcke There was a collar from 1893 thru 1941. It was only ever used by the king. The special class is not a collar. It was created in 1909, and was the highest class (presumably below the collar). The insignia on the 1942 certificates on is the special class, not the now obsolete collar. However, until 1941, the type of medal displayed on the certificates was the type obsoleted in 1909. Strange to show the obsoleted design when it was not longer used Rgds Dave
  13. Hi Micke The special class was created in 1909, not 1941. (Their was also a collar created in 1893, but used only for the King. In the regulations others could have it, but it was never given out and eventually canceled.)
  14. Hi Micke The initial reproduction series of these medals (many different medals) all had the same ribbon. There were a couple later ribbon versions. There wasn't any attempt to have them with correct type ribbons. Long time back I searched out many of these reproductions, and eventually I found the stall of the guy that had them made. He had drawers of all the different parts, and assembled them in every combination. The bars were all the same. Here are some examples of these reproductions, along with others :
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