Rod

Here I go again!!! I have a Bavarian "pallish"? in transit to me... There is an inscription on the langet: "Zestermeister / s/ l/ Von Stauffenberg 1896" This cannot be Claus Von Stauffenberg who lead the failed assasination of Hitler since Claus was not born until 1907, but it might be his father Alfred!! Can someone shed some light on Alfred??? (maybe Zestermeister???) I will post pics later if there is any interest. Rod

I hope I am not boring or testing the patience of those that are kind enough to read this subject. BUT... I do not usually fuss with my "precious" acquistions but the loose grip wires were driving me nuts!! SOOOO I prayed and unscrewed the pommel nut, and took it all apart!! I found the bakelite grip(simulated sharkskin) was BROKEN!!! RATS ... Super Glue to rescue and now you cannot tell !!!! Also the main twisted grip wire had a broken end but I was able to drill another "closer" hole and fitted it in nicely. There are thinner twisted wires wrapped on both sides on the larger one just mentioned .... one was complete but loose so I could fit it back into the original hole .. but about 2 inches had been broken off the other. Soooo I attached some black "heavy duty" thread to its end and was able to neatly wrap and then tie the thread into the end of the repaired grip. You would have to look very.... very closely with a magnifiy glass to see the one wire was partially replaced with thread. In the process of all of this I was able to remove the leather finger holder and brought it back to life with Pecards Antique!! Worked out super!!!! I noted the tang is stamped "2890" (for whatever that is worth). In my less than opinion I think the sword et al looks great!!! The blade is prestine (which amazes me ) with both the knight's head and the king's head maker markers. Can someone tell me the significance of the king's head as the WW2 W.K. & C. army dagger I have only has the knight's head??????? Ha Ha .. I warned you I tend to get excited!! Rod

Thanks to both Rick and David!!! David .... I will wait with my fingers crossed till I hear back from you!!! Sounds promising !! Rod

Hi David, Do you not see a letter ---- "j" between the d and Schutzen? The ricasso shows W.K. & C. with the knight's head and the king's head. I am told it appears in the W. K. & C catalog as Pattern No. 2 - Pressischer Infanterie Offizier = Degen mit Adlercharnier. The spine of the blade shows the distributor as S. Markhoff, Dortmund. I think it is in great shape except for the grip wire wrapping which is a little loose at the pommel end. The white leather blade buffer pad is present as well as the leather finger loop which is in fairly good shape. I think (could be all wet ) that the nickel (as opposed to black) scabbard indicates a pre - 1908 manufacture. I also think (again I could be all wet ) but the lack of blade etching confirms this is not one on the post WW 1 swords. Rick has said above that Schubbe was probably the "head" of a Schutzen unit. I would most certainly be the very last to question his judgement, but I have read that a Schutzen head was and still are known as Schutzenmeister. (I am still hoping that Schubbe's title as Hauptmann indicates he was a military officer at some point.) Rod

Here is the "engraving" . I had a really hard time scanning it. German script has always confused me, but I think it reads: gen. v. d. j. schutzen-comp. Help!! Rod

Rick and David - - - Many thanks, I will scan the engraving when I get the item in hand from Tom Johnson. I will then post it here. I was particularly attracted to this sword because of its described good condition. I went ahead and ordered it before I asked for any investigation . ( I do tend to get overly excited at times!!). Rod

Hi Rick, Thanks for the reply. I am still trying to get my bearings with this one!! Please bear with me. Ok, then H. Schubbe was the leader of the Scharnhorst "shooting club". Does the name of the club -- Gev. v. v. d. j. Schutzen-Comp. (Jager Schutzen Company) indicate the members were probably current and/or retired military personnel? Many thanks, Rod

sigh, Rod

I always wanted an Imperial sword and one is finally in the mail to me!! It is a presentation M-89 Prussian Infantry Degen (W. K. & C.) Now to the juicy part: The scabbard is engraved: "Herrn Hauptmann H. Schubbe Gev.v.d.j Schutzen-Comp. Scharnhorst 1906" which I understand is Captain H. Schubbe, Presented by the Jager Schutzen Company, Scharnhorst 1906. I also understand his name appears in the rank list of the Royal Prussian Army for 1906 as Director of the Provisions Section of the 1st Army Corps Commissariat (Food & Supplies). I would more than greatly appreciate if someone could provide me more information on Hauptmann Schubbe!!!! Thanks so much, Rod

I have noticed that the Franz Joseph medal is often with a "locket" on the reverse. Would those of you that have this item care to share what is included in the "locket"... pics .... snips of hair???? Rod

The Zahringen Lion I have is unmarked. All of the ones I have seen to date are also unmarked. Mine is the second class (silver) with swords and the oakleaf. I think the center is gold. I am pretty sure it is WW1 vintage. Can someone comment as to the possible maker? I know this is rather vague, but speculations would be very welcome. Where would maker marks appear and from what makers? Many thanks, Rod

I did not attend the MAX show in Pittsburgh, but I understand the Russians were buying all they could of the less mint items. I am curious.... was this rush to buy items prompted by simply investment potential? It all seems very strange to me. Investment would only be if they anticipated a firm future buyer. It seems to me there is more to this story. Would someone please speculate as to the reason for this Russian interest. Rod

Komtur..... many thanks for an excellent explanation!!!! Rod

I am still confused (that seems like a constant situation for me) ... I am still not comfortable with the reasons for the award for this order or for justification for a purchase $$$$$$$$. I think that for the most part the attraction of awards (at least to me) is for some sort of life and death (heroic) situation such as a military effort. As I look at a GOLD award which I think would be a pre 1914, can someone give me some idea of what sort of an achievement would warrant the award?????? The design of the award is greatly appealing to me (Prussian eagles are beautiful), but I need to have a better appreciation of what it really represents. Perhaps someone has an award document that would give me an idea of the reason for the award??? I hope my concern makes sense. The attraction of an award (at least for me) has got to be for more than just being one of the noble "favored" group . Rod

I have been told that the "silber" marking indicates the EK was made in Bavaria. I have no idea if this is true or not. I bought the EK from a dealer who presents extremely lenghty descriptions that I have come to believe it is all hot air. Rod

That certainly is an impressive group! Thanks Dave, Rod

I am really tempted to take the "plunge" but i need a bit more encouragement!!! Rod

Many thanks to all for their response... At the risk of being a pain I still get the feeling that the order is still not being appreciated. I can't be more specific .... BUT there seems to be to me more to it than what has been expressed. Maybe it it just a "old ole boys club" or rather a "van" club but does it not seems more exclusive ??? Sorry to keep hitting this so hard.... BUT .... Sorry!!! Rod

Great pics!! At least I was not dreaming that I had seen some! Hummm ... I now understand one had to prove noble birth to be admitted to the order. Maybe it was sort of the "Betty Crocker seal of approval" to tout linage. For the Kaiser to wear it certainly looks like it was a highly valued award. Very interesting. Many thanks to all. Rod

Many thanks to all.. Somewhere along the way (I don't think I dreamed it ) I have seen pics of prussian officers wearing the Johanniter medal along with their military action decorations. I also understand the basis for the award was "chivalry" which could include many humanitarian things. Seems sort of strange for military personnel to be wearing such an award except perhaps in the case of medical personnel or perhaps a chaplain. To wear this award along with military action awards intrigues me. If someone would comment further I would appreciate it very much. By the way, Emedals as a cased commanders cross in gold circa 1900 for $2,300 that looks great!! Rod

Mike, Thanks for the great information! The Order is a very attractive one in my opinion and sure seems to have some interesting history. I have not seen the medals listed for sale very often. I will keep digging. Rod

I have fussed around in the imperial period and still not have found my niche!! I love the pour le merite but it is far beyond my financial means PLUS there are more land mines than I can negotiate. Hummmm .. I have noted the pour le merite closely resembles the Johnitter Order. BUT I have found very little information on the Johanniter. Would someone plus explain the Johanniter Order and give some comment as to the advisability of collecting such items? Rod

Many thanks again for the great information!! Rod

Lately I have been bumbling and stumbling around in minatures. I have acquired a minature Austrian iron crown (even has the iron insert!!) and an FJ knight (with a mobile crown) both in real gold. Under magnification I cannot believe the extent of detail. Both were rather pricy but I am satisfied with them. They make a perfect addition to their "big brothers". I have learned that the "chains" have been subject to much manipulation .. i. e. trading medals back and forth. I don't think much has been said about minature medal bars. How rare are the miniature medal bars and can it be said that are also NOT to be taken at face value either? I see very few listed for sale. Rod

Rick...... thanks so much!! Seems like everytime I have what I think is a dumb question and hestiate to bother the club, then I do ask, I find that you and others reply with some really great information. Rod