Graf

I found better picture on the reverse site of the Star with the motto I remember now it was sold on the Hemman Historica a year ago It was stated that it is 1st Class Star - Breite 90 mm. Gewicht 76,2 g. Seltene

Hi Guys, i just discovered that this strange Set of SS Cyril and Methodius was sold or re-sold in 2014 on La Galerie Numismatique Auction I am not sure whether this is another Set or the same Set was re-sold over and over again For the first time we can see some marks on the pin of the Star

Hi 992 F, I am not quite sure that the Kretly Star is a trial It is properly marked for French Silver on the pin plus the Kretly mark plus the proper Kretly Plate, The Quality is typical Kretly Firm. I am not defending it simply because i own this Star Simply I analyze the facts. It is contrary to the unmarked Stars and Crosses sold recently on different Auctions and Dealers Sites BTW The Cross on Liverpool site, discussed in other thread, is sold. Unless there is a Vatican Document stating that the Austrian Firm Mayer was the sole designated maker of this decoration we have to accept that there could be other makers who gives their own Variation Depending od the materials they use The Mayer Star is typical Austrian type I can not remember where i saved the Star with the motto from. However I will try to trace the site. The Set i listed was sold on 259 Kuenker Auction in 2015 The badge is being on sale for a while on La Galerie Numismatique Supposedly it was already "sold' twice on two of theirs previous Auctions ??!! Best Graf

The Set is very rare and nice especially with original box There are few makers -even french ones Here is a Star from Kretly ...plus more pictures of different Stars, Crosses and Breast badge

Hi 922F Thank you for the link It is a very interesting information. Now the question is who was first the egg or the hen i.e. whether the the Setts and the Crosses of the Order of SS Cyril and Methodius with blue enamel existed before the Stars and Crosses of this private society or other way around, someone (could be the French Maker) used the society left over decorations and crated new Model of the Bulgarian order. Graf

Hi 922F,, This is very interesting information. Currently I am following few links to solve the mystery of those Sets and Crosses with blue enamel One of the link I call French Connection There is a rumor (not proved) that they might have been made in Paris, France If this private society copied the Bulgarian Order of SS Cyril and Methodius and it was founded in 1952 It might explain the Origin of the blue enamel Crosses.I do not have any of those Klenau Auction Catalogs If you have any pictures and more visual information it will be great to list them Graf

Hi Carol, I agree with New Word. From the pictures it looks very fine first model 1900 period with "glass enamel" Prince Ferdinand Emission Austrian made They are bronze gilded, therefore no marks could be found on the cross Such Cross in an original box can have a price tag 900-1000$ If you can get it cheaper it will be a good deal Do you have the picture/s of the front of the box.? It should look like that Graf

Hi Guys, Here is a interesting information i would not make nay comments at this stage Opinions are welcomed A prototype/demonstration Cross was sold in 2010 on XV Auction of La Galerie Numiqmatique ORDER OF SAINT CYRIL AND METHODIUS A manufacturer's demonstration badge. Reverse of this very rare order in bronze gilt and one-side enameled, center with enamel painting, dim. 60 x 60 mm. In perfect condition.I Price 200 EURO plus com Graf

Hi Iieff, The medals are much easier to fake No enamel or other special features. The only one needs a very good impression material and casting facilities in the shop or in the back yard The most common faked items are the medals in any country even the cheapest ones - they can be produced in large numbers to make up for the price

That is a very interesting story and a part of Bulgarian History which was not forgiven. The Box -The stamp on the lid looks to be Rothe

Hi New World I did not stated that is a Fake --just said unless enamel tested The Cross on the Liverpool site is the same as Spink or Norton & Eden I listed it here to discuss its originality. and to try to find out which period it was made and possible maker

Hi, This Cross is different from the Kuenker one The central medallion has the St. brothers painted different and the back ground is not the same plus this dark blue colour of the back medallion. I do not have the latest Prof. book yet. The Set in the Tallin Museum looks like the one sold in France few years ago BTW This Set was sold on the Auction for 5500 EURO plus com. All points towards Spanish made one unless the enamel is tested. as Igor noted the price of this Cross was 2995 GBP and it was just sold by Liverpool Medals This Cross was sold 2 years ago either by Spink or Norton & Eden

Hi I just noticed that a very strange form Grand Cross of the Order of St Kylil and Methodius was sold by a dealer It was claimed to be the King Ferdinand Model. I can not make any conclusions at this stage, however this Cross is a different to any other known till now. It is very simplified central medallion The colour of the reverse medallion is blue ??? It has single sided enamel flames The quality is not as good as the well known Crosses Note 1 Similar was sold on the 173 Kuenker Auction and was claimed to be made by Spanish firm Cejalvo around 1970 This Cross had much better quality)) Note 2 Few years ago a Grand Cross Set with a Similar Cross and a 1st Type Star was sold on Auction in France In my opinion the Star was Good The Set came with a sash Two years ago the Cross was sold on other Auction in Europe No Star No sash Now This Cross surfaced again on its own - No Star No sash I will wait for your comments Graf

The Set is gone from eBay. I hope no one did buy it

HI ilieff, Thank you for the photo.It is splendid It really looks like that this cross was given in rare numbers and only to VIP The 1st Class Decoration of Prince Ferdinand next to the Bravery Order, luxury model with Diamonds, is the first I ever seen so far. Amazing We keep discovering new facts every day. I assume that he got the Bravery Order after he became PM, that suggests that the Braver Order could be a once off special order in very limited numbers by Ferdinand and was given to VIPs till runs out.

Hi Yankee, I have the answer of your questions regarding the rare 4th Class Orders you started the topic 10 years ago. Both are French made Material Silver very likely maker according to an expert is Firm Kretly Paris here are pictures you can see very clearly the French mark for Silver "boar head"\ On one of your pictures you posted with the other rare model of this $th Class you can see the same mark on exactly the same place- the mark is upside down but is clear "boar head" (Post #13) igor Ostapenko was spot on with his guess that is French made

At least the seller admits it is a brass copy with a new ring This item is on eBay for sale.

Hi I want to share this picture with you This is the French text translation : Insignia of the order of bravery that belonged to William II (1859-1941), King of Prussia and emperor of GermanySilver,gold plated and enamelSpecial Model for "heads of the dead" (Backhand)1914-1918

The Unique Silver Cross is a mystery I have one and is marked 925 for Silver. There are samples that are nor marked. Late Prince Romanoff showed in his book 1915 model of this Cross There are miniatures of this Cross an also samples that are part of medal bars if the crosses from 1915 and 1941 are with similar features it is very likely tha the Firmt Zimmerman was their maker. How rare are both models -- it is very difficult to say. Simply because we are witnessing that more and very interesting "rare birds' are coming on the market.--also the fact that I have already six { one Gold, one Bronze, and four Silver} 1941 Model, which is considered as very rare as well. It is simply matter of time , luck and selective search

Hi 992F, Thank you for the comment i did not include the sash because it is a modern made Grand Cross one, which was not mentioned in the listing. That means mismatch, however it is the smallest problem of the Set It was bought either from the World (International] Ribbons site or it is locally made one -more likely the first option - it costs 120 $ This company makes very nice ribbons mainly from modern materials, however they can not make the 1st Class Ribbon due to the high cost to make one and very low demand Sometimes they get a hold of Original old materials and make very good quality ribbons, nearly exactly like the Originals BTW the Ribbon loop on the top of this Set is from the same company you can buy from the company - It is Silver Gilded (not market) i think costs 30 or 40 EURO

Hi, The quality will not fool an old collector, however it is a trap for the beginner collector A real First Class Set will never be made so many faults. Not talking about the soft enamel. Few fakes, with a different quality appeared on the market We have to be very careful if you do not want to depart with our hard earned $$$ for a fake. I hope some poor collector who is not a member of this Forum can buy it. i suspect the seller from Bulgaria knows very well, because he/she priced the Set not very high plus "make an offer " feature. i bet he/she will accept very low offer for the fake Set

Did you see this 1st Cl;ass Set of the Order of St Alex on Ebay Republican Model In my Opinion is Fake 1 The Cross has fabricated central medallion -very likely soft enamel as the one you showed GMIC i do not like the swords attachment as well 2. The Star as a whole is very strange - 85 mm wide - it should be 88 mm The finish is very bad especially the swords. I do not like those rivets on the back They remind me of the attachment of the fake Military Merit Stars The central medallion especially the green enamel lacks the fine pattern under the enamel. The central red enamel plus the Lion -poor quality The Wreath is also strange pattern What do you think?

Hi Ilieff, That you for getting my massage We did not write any book We did not publish any articles. We are pure collectors who bang our heads to clear some facts that are not in the books.using our knowledge and materials that are in our hands or in books and on internet Igor is sometime hot headed It is OK with me It shows eagerness to show a point All of us we have different ways to get our points. Thanks God it is just a Forum on Internet Can you imagine what could be if we are locked in a room and try to get our point. There could be a fist fight at some stage Like in many Parliaments around the world. That is the nature of Debate -could be very hot sometimes I have more information regarding the French made Bravery order with French mark for Silver post #33 from 27 of August It comes from an expert on Bulgarian Orders "the bravery order with the boar head mark for Silver is very interesting. I would like to assume that the jeweller Kretly in Paris may be considered for this early type, in conjunction with this mark. I have not seen such a punch yet on a bravery order, but on many decorations of civil merit order I can prove "Kretly"." That is some proof that all those Models were not privately made but by some of the best makers at that time Why?...to bang our heads even further Hi Ilieff -Good point if they are made privately ...why bronze. BTW Thank you both for the photos Cheers

Hi As it is suspected the this Model was one of the first ones. Also we can speculate that it was given mainly to high ranking Officers, that can explain the lower numbers seen then the standard crosses.we also can speculate that any of the rare Models we see were given only to high ranking Officers and on special ceremonies

Thank you for the comments Graf