filfoster

Bayern: Yes, that is a possibility.

Silver or white gold it is. Although it appears only briefly, this photo clip of Goering meeting Hitler at an airfield in 1940, probably in the fall as the Battle of Britain was beginning, shows the interimstab with white shaft and silver (some white metal, platinum, white gold, etc.) head and tip. It's post July 19, 1940 the date of his promotion and he's wearing a Luftwaffe blue uniform, not his dove gray rig but with the First Pattern (eagle on left collar, batons on the other), Reichsmarschall collar tabs and the shoulder boards. HItler is wearing his 'field uniform'. Good enough for me.

No museum response, so let's give that up. Based on the Verlag book, (the sutures from the removal of one of my 'parts' for the cost of same have healed rather nicely), the Foch uniform photos suggest that the silver stars were worn on the 'field uniform' and the gold stars were worn on the 'parade'/dress uniform of the same cut. Anyhoo, if that's not right, I look forward to someone posting better information.

...and continues...IF there are no further photos, my conclusion is that the headpiece and ferrule cap are either white gold or platinum, silver colored metals, not yellow gold, based on the few color photos above. If you disagree, post a better photo.

OK, sadly but not surprisingly, no response from the French museum of generals. However, I was interested enough in this topic to buy the wonderful but hideously expensive (at my age, I have less need for the body parts surrendered for the purchase), Verlag books on the WW1 French Army. Inconclusive. The photos of generals items show mostly silver stars but also a few gold stars; There is no particular explanation for this. Foch's uniforms, in particular two of his Marshal rigs, show both (I think; again, the size of the stars on one photo is not clear enough to distinguish between worn gilt or tarnished silver). I hope this thread will eventually produce a definitive answer about this but for now, it seems that it was, as in most armies, then and now, "generals please themselves". Silver seems the most common metal for the stars.

Will do. No response yet.

ccj: Does it seem to you that the majority of general's uniforms, campaign dress, used the silver stars? Bayern: Great story! Thank you. No offense intended for the Germans, who, after all, had fine uniforms in all periods past. Would you think that the majority of WW1 generals favored the silver sleeve stars?

Thanks! I think I'll keep the silver stars on the replica rigs I have. I have the gilt stars too but it's a lot of work to switch them out. The loops at the end of each star point are impressed through the fabric, then sewn to a pentagonal wool backing piece, all after the sleeve lining is undone. An alternative method is even more time-consuming, working thread loops around the star tip loops on the surface of the sleeve cloth. Mon dieu! Ironic, that the French appear to have spent even more time than the famously anally retentive Germans did on this small matter of uniform insignia!!

And there's this guy....

Glenn: Thanks for that. The regs are what they are, but how can the museum exhibits, and the portraits painted from life all be wrong? A tour through the 64 online 'pages' of the museum shows mostly -not all- silver stars on the sleeves and kepis and overseas hats. I hope the Musee desetoile will respond but they haven't yet and my experience with museum responses is '0'. My own tentative conclusion is that silver stars were often worn, in contravention of the regs, whether by personal choice or expedience (it's what the tailors had). All this is frankly what makes this question so interesting.

Enquiry sent. Now we wait...

Yes. Unknown when it was made? In the online pictures from the museum site, there were horizon blue uniforms and also helmets with some gold stars, and also with silver stars (see my posts above, eg, citing a picture at page 60). There are also photographs of generals during the war that reference gold and silver sleeve stars. No help. I couldn't find a reference on the site to the specific date of the regulations which specified the silver stars, which were also used on the pre-war black generals' dolman or variuse. Maybe I should, against hope, email the museum for clarification.

another exhibit picture of a 3 star Kepi, at page 40, has this which, absent further posts here from experts, settles it for me: "Note the 3 silver stars which correspond to the period 1915-1930." Thank you, Bayern.

...maybe the mystery is solved. Something changed in 1915, to or from the gilt stars. The museum of the stars link that Bayern provided, included this in the description of an horizon blue General of Division color photo, on page 59: Note the 3 silver stars indicating the wearing of this tunic at the beginning of 1915. The central buttonholes are hidden and all the buttons are horizon blue. The tunic has two decorative reminders: Grand Officer of the Legion of Honor and Another exhibit mentions this about a cap: C his cap is of the 1915 model in horizon blue color with 2 silver stars and a third gold colored star. The General therefore wore this cap before 1915 since the color of the stars of the Generals of Arms was changed in 1915

...so we must hope some visitor or member of this site will favor us with some further information/photos. It was disappointing in the extreme that the official French museum of the army, generals in particular, did not have clear examples of horizon blue, WW1-era uniform specimens displayed online, save this sample of inconclusive ones: (NOTE: See below as I discovered the text that accompanied each photo when enlarged on the site. The dates for the silver stars of 1915-1930 were found).

Bayern: Thank you. I did. I scrolled through all 66 pages of the generals and found on page 64 a 'grand tenue' with silver sleeve stars; at page 60, a 'petit tenue' with gold sleeve stars. Other examples in the first dozen pages or so were inconclusive but seemed to show silver stars on horizon blue coats. Mon dieu!

Surely some French members of the forum have access to museum or private collection displays of general officer horizon blue uniforms?

The sleeve stars on the horizon blue tunics above appear to be silver, not gilt. Is this the case?

more Foch silver stars? I wonder if this was a regulation that was ignored in favor of what French military tailors already had on hand.

Can anyone supply a clear photo of a WW1 French general/marshal's horizon blue uniform with gilt sleeve stars? I confess I can't find one online after hours of looking, including the three uniforms, one each for Petain, Foch and Joffre at the Invalides. The photos are not conclusive and look like silver to me. The photo of Foch above, appears to be a tint and therefore, no real evidence. Painted portraits are of little help either, as a nice portrait of Foch shows silver sleeve stars but also incorrect silver tunic buttons.

Thanks Glenn. That's the conundrum. The regs say gilt stars but why do the paintings and the few specimens to be seen on this site and online seem to show silver stars on the horizon blue uniforms? This leads to the question whether silver stars were worn, despite regs. Are there any good museum or private collection displays of these uniforms? Not many online. Even the few general's horizon blue uniforms in this forum are not clear because the stars have tarnished so much.

A simple question: Were the sleeve stars on WW1 French General's and Marshal's horizon blue uniforms silver or gilt? The references often say gilt but many/most portraits and colorized photos look silver. There are few photos of displays and these are tarnished so much it's hard to tell. So, which were they?

Yes, but most of the photos in this thread, as I guess most staged photos in that time, were taken away from the front and the soldiers had their 'better' uniforms, if they had them. I would guess that these badges were sometimes found at the front but more often on the walking out tunics.

Is it correct to generalize that these sleeve badges were worn most often on 'walking out' dress and not in the field?

Bump. Still no photos of pre-December 1918 'bluse' uniforms with dark green collars.....