GMU

Wow, thank you very much Christophe!

Thank you Andy! Yes, I have seen this particular page. As a matter of fact, I have searched all over the internet and over several forums for more information without much success. This page confirms his PLM on 30.06.1918 and both his RAO4x and KrO4x in 1908. He entered service in 1892 with 4 years in Schutztruppe, so he must have gotten his DA25 in 1913. The 1914 Rangliste confirms this award by 1914. He was a Major when war started so it was pretty obvious he got both his EKs early on. As a Prussian soldier with PLM he must have surely received the HHO3x before his plm award. Bavaria, the second largest kingdom in importance after Prussia must have followed suit with his MVO4x. The thing is that I would like more help from people with access to the award rolls, so that they can confirm dates, and answer the questions I posted before. Thanks again Andy for your kind help

Thank you for your reply. Yes, I wish someone could help me answer these questions. Again, thanks in advance for any help received..

Anyone, anyone? Can anyone with access to HHO rolls confirm hho3x on sept or oct 1917? Is there anyone with access to Bavarian Militar Merit Order award recipients that can confirm this mvo4? The ribbon on #10 is that of the Ottoman War Medal right? Again, I will appreciate very much your help!!!! Thanks

Hello, I am seeking help from the forum experts regarding the awards of Oberstlt. A.D. Josef Bischoff commander of the Eiserne Division in 1919. Major Josef Bischoff was awarded the Pour le Merite in June 30 1918. His estate was recently auctioned in Germany, and it included his ribbon bar. I have tried to identify his medals..Could anyone here provide me with more information about the date of these awards, or in general, about Josef Bischoff's service? Thank you very much in advance! . I am posting this at other forums as well. Thanks again!!!

And, I am sorry to say, a bad one.

Yes, as others have said, this document doesn't look any good. That is not Von Kanitz's original signature...

I hope you did not pay much for it. It is a copy.

What a beauty !!

Hi Les, it has been a long time! Thank you all for your comments. It is a nice piece though, and I will keep it until more information is known. I will look under a microscope as you say Les. I know exactly what you mean. The cross on the right has such marks of movement. George

Thank you for your replies.I can see that there is still a disagreement about this type. I wish more people comment about this. I am still confused a bit as to how old this piece could be. Some other details.

Ribbon is narrower aprox 43mm

Hello guys, I seek the advice from the experts here in relation to the following Pour le Merite. It is definitely not a Wagner/Friedlander, or Godet, or even pre WW1. It looks like a S&L, but this one is silver gilt (800 mark on lower arm), and of better quality than most of the S&L PLMs frequently seen. This one is very well done and looks very nice. It measures 54mm by 53mm. I do not have the weight at this moment. I will post more photos. The question is, could this piece be pre 1945 or post 1945? Or, what is it then?

Beautiful. Congratulations

Wow, that's a beauty!

Very nice Litewka!

Claudio, thanks for posting these photos. I have seen this collection when I visited Neal in his museum in NJ back in 1994. He was a wonderful person and a good friend. His books are outstanding. The uniform belonged to Boelcke as Les said. Jacobs medals are original, and he got them directly from Jacobs himself back in the 70's. Berthold 's medals are original too. Interesting to note that his PLM has a joined "ur"

What a loss! My heart sinks when I see groups broken up like this ???? sad, sad????

I?ve updated MvR?s awards dates. MvR received Bremen?s Hanseatic Cross on Sept 25, 1917, three days after receiving L?beck?s. I guess Hamburg followed shortly.

This is Neal W O'Connor's replication. It is now in Berlin. Please note the NWOC used the Bavarian Military Merit Order, 3rd Class with Crown and Swords. This is the one displayed at San Diego Air and Space Museum. This display is missing several orders, and has one that MvR never got !!!

Yes, Daniel............I remember... Beautiful. I looked for an Imtiaz for over 8 years !! Did you, by any chance, keep the bare brass metal plate used in the order bar?

Thank you Roman. Outstanding document. This is the list I have so far. Cheers, George

Hey Les! That is a good idea. As a matter of fact, I have a complete set of new ribbons for each piece. Thank you for the suggestion and for your comments George

Finally, after many, many years, I have completed this project. One day I thought it would be cool to replicate Manfred von Richthofen?s Ordenskissen, and it all begun with an EK II. I acquired piece by piece individually without ever destroying or dismantling any existing bar. Some pieces were easy to find, but very expensive. Others were not that expensive, but very hard to find, at least for me. For example, I searched without any success for over 8 years for the Imtiaz medal in silver, with sabers, and when I finally got one, it wasn?t that expensive! Fortunately, most of the awards were acquired during ?the good old days? when two Deutsche Marks were exchanged for one US dollar. All awards are, to the best of my knowledge, genuine. Some notes: 1. The ribbon bar is obviously a reproduction. I have seen many around. This one is special for me though because it was given to me by my friend, the late Neal W O?Connor. He had made two of them many years ago. The problem with this one is that the Hanseatic Crosses were arranged in a different order as they were in MvR?s original bar. Neal made another one, in the correct order, and this was displayed many years in his museum. Now this bar is in Berlin. 2. The PLM is post 1918. 3. I have displayed here a Bavarian MVO 4th class with crown and swords because one can see a crowned MVO on MvR ?s original Ordenskissen . Neal O?Connor maintained for many years that MvR had a MVO 3rd class with crown and swords, so he displayed one on the replicated Ordenskissen that it is now in Berlin. However, there is no evidence that MvR received the MVO 3rd or the MVO 4th with crown. It is currently maintained that MVR received a 4th class with swords only, with no crown. However, how could we explain the crowned MVO on MvR?s original Ordenskissen? Manfred von Richthofen original awards as displayed on his funeral services in 1925 I am still debating if I should mount all these medals onto an order bar?????????