Paul L Murphy

It could be the LVO since it appears to be enamelled. The MVO is frosted silver.

The right hand column is the name of the maker and the left hand column says Showa Year 14 (which equates to 1939).

Exactly, which is why I ended up not bidding on it ! Most collectors of Royal Navy gallantry groups will not know or care that the Rising Sun is not original to the group. They will have been after the DSM and the story behind it.

Very nice indeed. I wonder are the modern certificates in the rectified name all the time ? The old Indochina era ones certainly were.

This lot was recently sold in a London medal auction and I was lucky enough to be able to handle it at the viewing. I was actually going to bid on it until I handled it, however it was clearly a post war Rising Sun that had been added to the group. Unfortunately you cannot see the reverse in the auction photos, but it had all the characteristics that Dieter has shown on his post war 7th class in earlier posts within this thread.

I agree, this is a higher class of Special Meritorious Member badge. A very nice find, I have never seen one of these before.

The Guards first wore khaki in the Sudan Campaign from memory. I would be pretty certain that what you have is a QEII version of the badge since the Victorian era badges are normally only found on red cloth since they were worn on the full dress uniform then. These currently fetch about £30, assuming they are in good condition. If it has moth damage then the price would drop a lot.

Fundraising in the aftermath of the tsunami. When I was a student in Japan I lived about 60 Kms from the nuclear reactors in Fukushima so I took all of the devestation rather personally since I remember what a lovely place it was, and how lovely and friendly the people were.

Hopefully in November I should be able to advise if the safe pin rosette comes with the modern Red Cross order since I will be awarded the Gold Merit Cross.

Later this year I should be able to show an example of the current issue award since I have been advised by the Japanese Red Cross that I will be awarded the Gold Merit Cross in November. :D

These rarely turn up, well done !

Can you explain what you mean by "civilian ribbon" please ? Are you referring to the little metal and enamel lapel badge that comes with the medal set for wear in civilian clothes ? One of the key factors in the value will be the era of the medals and whether or not they were actually awarded. Hence are there are numbers impressed in the edge of them, are any of them named, and what type of broach they have (these can be used to date them) are all important. If you can get photos posted then we will be better able to help. Cheers, Paul

It is hard to believe that it is already one year since that tragedy struck !

Certificate number 80 ! This is about as early as it gets !

The resolution on the obverse is too low to confirm if it is original. However Canadian stars were not named and I would be very skeptical of any WWII casualty medal which did not come with the official condolence slip (and in the case of a Canadian group with the Memorial Cross to next of kin).

Nick, A very fair question. You are correct that I only use authenticated and proven items, where it is possible to be certain of the date of award, to support my theories. Up to now the proven Golden Kite 3rd to 5th class items that I have handled have supported my theory regarding the position of the rivets changing over time. Hence why I came to the conclusion that it could be used as a simple guideline to work out the relative age of these orders. I have seen a number of the types of Kite posted in this thread, but never with documents or in circumstances that could confirm the period in which they belonged. This latest group clearly shows that my theory about the position of the rivets does not hold true, hence it needs to be abandoned. I have no interest in holding on to theories or hypothesis if they are shown to be incorrect. Like everyone else here I merely seek the truth so that we can better understand these items. As for my skeptical and critical comments, they are not directed at you as an individual so I apologise if I caused offence. You are well able to give as good as you get so I suggest we call it quits in that regard. My scepticism is directed at any and all hypotesis that are not supported by hard evidence. I have collected medals for 31 years (Japanese medals for 22 years) and I have seen my fair share of crank theories about medals that hold no water but mislead young collectors. Hence my desire to ensure that anything stated as being correct is in fact supported by evidence. I will be as hard on myself as I will on others (I have plenty of theories that I have not shared since I cannot get them to a level where I am happy with the proof) but hopefully the end result will be a better understanding of the truth behind the history of these medals rather than the fiction that grows up around so many things in our hobby. Regards, Paul

We can't ! That is why I have now removed that post since the theory no longer fits the latest evidence.

Perfect, many thanks. This is certificate 227,647 (but you probably knew that already). It fits perfectly in with the sequence of awards I have already got in my certificate database since 179,377 was awarded on 25th Sept 1938 and 231,129 was awarded on 8th December 1939. 48,270 awards (at least) of the Golden Kite in the year from Sept 38 - Sept 39 gives a good indication of either how much fighting was going on or how much more generous the government had become in awarding Golden Kites !

And it matches your Type 7 in your classification, which is good.

David, A lovely group. Can you post a close up of the left hand side of the certificate since I would like to read the number (it is just a bit too small for me). Regards, Paul

Rich, Generous indeed. The beers are on me next time I am in Fukuoka :cheers:

I checked the cert and it was awarded in 1963.

Pieter / Nick, Thanks for posting these. The certificate is particularly interesting since it confirms that post war the Japanese used a different number roll for awards to foreigners versus awards to Japanese. The Sacred Treasure 3rd Class to Branstedt was certificate number 7,741 and was awarded in 1963. By Showa Year 56 (2 years before your award) the Japanese roll for the Sacred Treasure was already at number 1,951,149 ! It appears that about 100 were awarded on average per year to foreigners during the period from the early 60s to early 80s. It is possible that the numbering of the roll for foreigners continued on post war where it left off in 1945 since certificate number 5,094 was awarded in 1927. We need to find a few more certificates for the Sacred Treasure to foreigners for the period between 1927 and 1963 to be able to draw a final conclusion in this regard.

Here is another photo of the Sacred Treasure 3rd Class awarded to Maze in 1920. It has the oval clasp. Once we have some more examples where we know the award date we will hopefully be able to tie down for definite the exact period when the changeover occured.

Pieter, Many thanks for that information, it is really helpful. If you email me a photo of the medal and certificate I will post them here for you. Unfortunately I did not get the Defense of Legations medal, it went for way more than I could afford to pay at the time. Regards, Paul