Gordon Craig

Steve, Yes they were usually attached to the sleeve of the field blouse. Sometimes cloth badges of the breast hangers were also produced and worn on the right breast. I have at least one field blouse with am arm badge and one with the breast badge. I'll see if I can dig them out and post pictures. The problem with taking pictures this time of the year is that it is dark in the house but lots of glare through the windows from the snow on the ground outside. Regards, Gordon

Steve, I didn't really add much to the dialog on Christmas Day. I did do some thinking about the individual badges and they are all researchable to a certain extent For instance, P452 3.PzFlak Abt. III would indicate a stand alone battalion (single digit 3) assigned to the 3rd Panzer Division HQ. Panzer Flak would be armed with the Gepard and this should be the IIIrd Company but I could not find any info on it on line. For this sort of "search" I rely on the NATO OOB for 1989 at this site http://www.scribd.com/doc/37695/NATO-Order-of-Battle-1989 There is a 3rd Flak Regiment of Artillery armed with 36 Gepards listed in the 3rd Panzer Div. in the NATO OOB. Could be a relationship there but here we bump into terms used in the BW and something else used in an English Language OOB. That is what makes these lower eschelon arm badges so difficult to trace. Far too often the units that produced these badges did not use a standard BW nomenclature. The other avenue, of course, is try tracing them through the symbols on the badge. H51 is obviously associated with the Feldjaeger, H50 possibly a Luftland unit, U88 a pioneer unit as part of a Gebirgjaeger Batallion. I would only go to all of the work to try and trace one of these badges should it come sewn onto a field uniform. Regards, Gordon

Steve, Most often these lower organization badges are copies of the breast hanger worn by the individual units. Reserve units were probably the most prolific designers of these badges and often completely ignored the official regulations of the heraldic design on shoulder badges. It is always interesting to try and identify these unit badges. Regards, Gordon

To add to what Paul has said, here is a link to a WIKI article about this award. Regards, Gordon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Elizabeth

On the 22nd of May 19990, a new "helmet Protocol service" was introduced. It was made of plastic and was introduced because stocks of the earlier M1 liners were exhausted. These helmets cost DM 30 each. They came in a shinny and matt finish. They remained in wear until the G Helm was introduced. (Ludwig Baer "Vom Stahlhelm zum Gefechtshelm") Regards, Gordon

The first light weight helmets worn by the WB and band members was simply the liner for the BW M1 helmet painted the appropriate colour. Pictures of the liner are below. This liner is in the original issued colour. Regards, Gordon

Gentlemen, To complete what was said here about helmets worn by the WB and bands here is a matt finished helmet as worn at funerals by the WB. Regards, Gordon

John, Yes the liners in these helmets are similar to the ones used in the U.S. M1 helmet but not the same. They are like those used in the BW Stahlhelm (M1 clone) helmet liner. The BW Stahlhelm was a modification of the U.S. M1 helmet but the Stahlhelm was slightly different in shape. This helmet, as Steve says, is of a different type of construction than the liner of the U.S. M1 or the BW Stahlhelm. I'll cover the Stahlhelm liners as worn by the WB and the bandsmen in a few days. In the meantime, here is a link to the BWB information sheets on the G Helm Repraesentation for you to look at. Regards, Gordon http://daten.bwb.org/AG-Bund/TL/daten/84150269.pdf

Paul, Sorry that I did not reply to this sooner. I had meant to but it slipped my mind. NVA officers are still drawing pensions from the BRD but they receive considerably less in their pensions than do BW officers. This was a real bone of contention at the time of unification and is probably as bad 15 years later. Here is a link to a book that discusses this point very well. Regards, Gordon http://books.google.ca/books?id=sELghp1BIbgC&pg=PA145&lpg=PA145&dq=what+pensions+did+NVA+officers+receive+from+the+West+German+government&source=bl&ots=vjO98u1qB-&sig=pNhTDwtPAhcKfPQLXIGf7v7fhJA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=4kKjUt3HL4LsqQHCjIHADw&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=what%20pensions%20did%20NVA%20officers%20receive%20from%20the%20West%20German%20government&f=false

Antonio, I can identify some of them. Top row left side is Bundesluftwaffe Jagdbomber-Geschwader 32 (Jabo G. 32); Top right is a generic patch for the EA-3B SKY WARRIOR aircraft. Carrier based aircraft only flown by the U.S. Navy. Squadron patches I have seen previously usually have the squadron number included in the design.; Bottom row left - unknown Bottom row centre - Radarfürungsabteiling 24 based in Freising; Bottom row left - unknown Regards, Gordon

Larry, I should have followed my own inclination and entered 1947 which is the year of India/Pakistan partition. I attended the Independence Day parade when I lived in Delhi and it should have been the obvious pick. I am a member now although I don't have much to add to the discussions there. I suppose I could post my Grand Star of Azad Hind. Regards, Gordon

Larry, I've tried several more times to join the South Asia Gongs site but I still get the independence question wrong. I know that the US declared its independence in 1776 but the site won't accept that answer. Any suggestions? Regards, Gordon

Larry, Thanks but I am not a member of South Asia Gongs so I can not get past the log in. I tried to sign on as a member but it keeps coming back saying that I have got the date of independance wrong. Who's independence? U.S.A., India? Since I am a Canadian I don't have an Independance Day. I could give you the date we repatriated the British North American act if that will do. Regards, Gordon

Larry, Thanks for your help. Unfortunately, I have not been able to find the wing. What exactly is SAGongs? Perhaps you could post a link th where you found the wing. Regards, Gordon

Thanks for your comments folks. I have done some research and India has followed the British practice of using a full wing for pilots and a half wing for air crew in the past. Here are some examples. It never occurred to me to look at India police. The Indian police are really a paramilitary force and I suspect they follow the British practices as well but it is another place to look. Regards, Gordon

This wing was shown at a recent Militaria Club meeting and we are seeking any information that we can find on it. Recently purchased in India but the vendor had not information on it. The back is plain without maker mark. Just two posts and push on devices to hold it in place. Anyone have any clues? Regards, Gordon

Jens, Thanks. I bought his book in 2004. That and his web site work well. Regards, Gordon

JensF, What is the name of his book? From his web site, which I visit often, the book could be worth getting. Is there information about the medals in his book? Regards, Gordon

Red Eagle What a great addition to your collection and they will look great on your web site. Regards, Gordon

Red Eagle, Very interesting topic. I have never heard of these before. Do you have an actual copy of one of these medals? If not, do you know if there are any in museum's etc.? Regards, Gordon

Uwe, Thanks for adding this important information. It confirms what my research over the years has told me. Below you will find the name of the NVA Medical General, reduced in rank to Colonel, who was retained by the BW. Also, the Generals and the Admiral who were retained as civilian advisers to specific General officers in the BW. Regards, Gordon "Only one former NVA general was accepted for active service in the Bundeswehr: Generalmajor Dr. sc. Med., Obermedizinalrat, Dipl.-Med. Eberhard Beyer entered the Bundeswehr on 3 October 1990 with the rank of Oberstarzt. He had served from 1987-1990 as Chief of the Medical Service in the Ministry for National Defense. After separating from military service, four former NVA generals and one admiral were selected to serve as advisors, in a civilian role, with the Bundeswehr-Kommando Ost. Commanded by Generalleutnant Jörg Schönbohm from October 1990-June 1991, this command was responsible for dissolving the NVA, maintaining control of equipment/munitions and absorbing former members of the NVA into the Bundeswehr. 1. Generalleutnant Dipl.-Mil. Klaus-Jürgen Baarß (separated from the NVA on 30 September 1990) – advisor to Generalmajor Werner von Scheven, the deputy commander of Bundeswehr-Kommando Ost, and responsible for all questions regarding general military duties and training. 2. Generalleutnant Dipl.-Mil. Rolf Berger (separated from the NVA on 2 October 1990) – air force advisor to Generalmajor Bernhard Mende, head of the Luftwaffe division of Bundeswehr-Kommando Ost (based at Eggersdorf). 3. Vizeadmiral Dipl.-Mil. Hendrik Born (separated from the NVA on 2 October 1990) – naval advisor to Flottillenadmiral Dirk Horten, head of the naval department of Bundeswehr-Kommando Ost (based at Rostock). 4. Generalmajor Dipl.-Mil. Lothar Engelhardt (separated from the NVA on 2 October 1990) – advisor of the Bundeswehr liaison group headed by Generalmajor Foertsch to the Western Group of Soviet Forces and responsible for all general questions relating to the army. 5. Generalmajor Dipl.-Mil. Michael Schlothauer (separated from the NVA on 2 October 1990) – advisor to Brigadegeneral Peter Jacobs, the chief of staff of Bundeswehr-Kommando Ost.

Paul R, Yes it must have. There must have been some planning by the BW before hand as evidenced by the reforming of BW units from reserve to full time using the staff etc of former NVA units. It is worth noting that the NA units I mentioned above are three of the premier units of the NVA. Not only uniforms needed to be changed but new thought patterns, drill, organizational charts etc. Despite my title for this thread I have studied the transition from NVA to BW for some time. Some people have been kind enough to share their research with me but I can not post it here as I do not have their permission for use beyond my personal research. There were several short courses, some a few weeks in length while others lasted a few months after a former NVA soldier had been accepted, on a provisional basis, and assigned to a BW unit for training. This unit would have assessed the former NVA soldier for retention in the BW beyond the two year provisional enlistment. It must have been difficult to unlearn almost everything you had been taught and to basically start all over again. Regards, Gordon