bigjarofwasps

Hi Johnsy, thanks for your reply. Thought this might be of interest? Carat Fineness, % Gold content, % Comments 24 999 99.9 Three nines 24 990 99.0 Two nines, Minimum allowed 22 916 91.6 Indian subcontinent 21 875 87.5 Arabic countries (19.2) 800 80.0 Standard in Portugal 18 750 75.0 Standard caratage 14.8 620 62.0 Dental Gold Minimum 14 585 58.5 583/58.3% in USA 10 417 41.7 Minimum in USA 9 375 37.5 U.K. standard 8 333 33.3 Minimum Germany I think that if the gold was refined and all the other metals taken out, it would then become pure gold, but as to how much dental gold for how much pure gold you`d get by doing this I have no idea, but I imagine that it`d be a lot. I read somewhere that for every 5 tons of gold ore that is mined in South Africa they get something crazy like 5 gramms of pure gold!!!! Gordon.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5121552.stm The total number of UK troops killed while on operations in Afghanistan since 2001 has risen to 41 after the death of a Royal Marine in Lashkar Gah in Helmand Province on 19 October.

Four British servicemen were killed following an attack on a boat patrol in southern Iraq on 12 November. They were named as: Warrant Officer Lee Hopkins, 35, of the Royal Corps of Signals; Staff Sergeant Sharron Elliott, 34, of the Intelligence Corps; Corporal Ben Nowak, 27, of 45 Commando Royal Marines; and Marine Jason Hylton, 33, of 539 Assault Squadron Royal Marines. A further three suffered serious injuries in the attack on the Shatt al-Arab waterway in Basra. The total number of UK troops killed in operations in Iraq has risen to 125 after four soldiers were killed in Basra City on Sunday 12 November, 2006.

KETTLE-KRUGERRANDS DENVER (AP) - The holiday season is golden for the Salvation Army in Denver. Charity spokeswoman Karen Herdman says an anonymous donor has dropped four gold coins into a collection kettle in front of an area supermarket. The South African Krugerrands are worth about $1,000 each. It's the fourth straight year someone has made the solid gold donation. Herdman says the Salvation Army doesn't know the identity of the donor. But she says the anonymous benefactor always calls to make sure the gold coins have been found.

Iraq death soldier named by MoD Kingsman Hancock came under fire while on sentry duty A British soldier who died after an attack on a base in southern Iraq has been named by the Ministry of Defence. Kingsman Jamie Hancock, of the 2nd Battalion Duke of Lancaster's Regiment, came under small arms fire on Monday while on sentry duty in Basra City. The 19-year-old, who lived near Wigan Lancashire, with his soldier brother, was deployed to Iraq on 21 October. The number of British troops killed in operations in Iraq is now 121. Of these, 91 died after hostile action. On joining the army, Kingsman Hancock served as a rifleman involved in training to prepare other units for operations in Iraq. He volunteered for a six-month tour of the country as part of Catterick-based 19 Light Brigade, later amalgamated into The Duke of Lancaster's Regiment. 'Fearless spirit' Kingsman Hancock's company commander, Major Chris Job, described him as an "energetic and enthusiastic individual who lived for the Army and had a very promising career ahead of him". "His enthusiasm was boundless and the fearless spirit with which he lived was amply demonstrated by his decision to volunteer for this Iraq tour," he said. "He was a magnet for his peers, who were drawn by his infectious sense of fun and all-embracing nature." In a statement, Kingsman Hancock's family said: "We are deeply shocked at the loss of our much-loved son. "We are and always will be very proud of him and all that he achieved." The MoD said there were no other casualties after the incident, which took place around 1200 local time at the Old State Building, a coalition forces base in central Basra City. Defence Secretary Des Browne said he was "deeply saddened" by the death. Mr Browne said: "His family, friends and comrades as ever have my thoughts and prayers at this difficult time. "Our brave forces are striving to build a better future for the people of Iraq and this is a stark reminder to us all of the dangers they face there."

Maybe, maybe, & the Aliens demanded to be paid in fake Krugerrands minted for Nazi gold, which is where the whole story started.

Hi Kev , A fellow sceptic, thats nice to see!!!! However, I do love this sort of thing. I suppose the concept could be real, but the facts as given in this article are full of holes I agree. The Krugerrand would certianly be an easy coin to copy, especially, if you were using gold, and the reason for doing this wasn`t in fact to make fake coins, but to launder the gold you already had. I suppose no one would be any the wiser, unless you used all the same year, and all of a sudden the martket was flooded with more 1967 coins that were made if you get my train of thought. If you read one of my other treads, you`ll see that after the war, the Allies found hordes of gold sovereigns, in various banks in Spain & Portugal, the old Swiss Banks, certainly delivered gold to these countries, so I suppose the concept could be real. But lets just say for the sake or arguement, this in fact turns out to be the trueth, and lets just say there was a way to tell the difference between an South African Krugerrand & a Nazi one, which one would be more valuable? Gordon.

CHINA HAS JUST ‘TRIGGERED’ GOLD INTO A FULL BULL MARKET http://www.sacoin.co.za/info_topic7.html

http://www.conspiracybomb.com/nazigold.htm http://www.theconspiracy.us/vol6/cn6-89.html

WHAT HAPPENED TO THE NAZI GOLD? One Trenton Parker, an ex-Marine colonel with CIA connections and claiming to have inside knowledge as to what actually became of the Nazi gold horde following World War II, was Tom Valentine's guest on his nightly radio show, Radio Free America, on July 29, 1993. Parker is described in the Radio Free America catalog of past programs as follows: July 29, 1993: A veteran CIA operative claiming to be with an especially secretive group known as Pegasus, was guest. Trenton Parker, a "sheep-dipped" Marine Colonel, told of his role in planning/execution of the "great energy scam" of the 70s when Big Oil drove U.S. independent oil companies out of business, closed/opened the Suez Canal, created lines at gas pumps to drive up price of oil, filched stolen gold into the market by opening the gold window to Americans for 1st time since 1933, sold weapons to Arab states getting rich from the oil scam and sealed the deal with Portland cement from Spain. For further background on Parker, see Rodney Stich's classic outline of hidden corruption in the U.S. government, Defrauding America {1}. See also Radio Free America's tape archives of past programs {2}. By way of background, it may be helpful to re-acquaint ourselves with a few things: (1) Francisco Franco emerged from the Spanish Civil War (circa 1936) as the undisputed dictator of then-fascist Spain. Franco had friendly ties to Hitler's Germany. (2) ODESSA: an abbreviation of Organisation Der Ehemaligen SS-Angehorigen (German: "Organization of Former SS Members"). The Encyclopaedia Britannica describes ODESSA, in part, as follows: "...clandestine escape organization of the SS underground... A large organizational network was set up to help former SS and Gestapo members and other high Nazi functionaries to avoid arrest... to escape from prison, or to be smuggled out of the country. The main escape routes were (1) through Austria and Italy, then to Franco's Spain, (2) to Arab countries of the Middle East, and (3) to South America..." (3) Martin Bormann: again, quoting in part from the Encyclopaedia Britannica, "[bormann] became head of the administrative machinery of the Nazi Party, and through intrigue, party infighting, and his shrewd manipulation of Hitler's weaknesses and eccentricities, he became a shadowy but extremely powerful presence in the Third Reich... He disappeared shortly after the death of Hitler, and it was presumed that he was either dead or in hiding... Later reports, especially in the 1960s, alleged that Bormann had escaped and had been living in South America, possibly Paraguay. However, early in 1973 a Berlin forensic expert established 'with near certainty' that one of two skeletons unearthed during construction in West Berlin in December 1972 was that of Bormann, and on April 11, 1973, West German authorities officially declared him dead." As is apparent from the Radio Free America catalog excerpt quoted above, Parker discussed many things during his July 29, 1993 appearance. What follows is the gist of his explanation of what actually happened to the "lost" Nazi gold horde. For further details I refer interested readers to the tape of his July 29th testimony, available from Valentine Communications (see below). Many of us have heard the story that the Nazi gold was thrown into a deep lake in Switzerland and sank far down, down to the bottom. Parker calls this nonsense. The gold, he says, was never thrown into any lake. The gold went into Spain, through Martin Bormann's ODESSA. There it sat, under the watchful eye of Generalisimo Franco. "A lot of people have never, ever, asked the obvious question: What deal was struck, in order for Franco to pull out of the Axis powers during the Second World War?... And the deal was: you get to be president; we're not going to bother you... There was a deal struck... Spain became, in effect, a major access and exit point for a lot of people coming out of Germany at that time." How does Parker know all this? One Ortega-Perez served as a staff interpreter for General Eisenhower. The sister of Ortega-Perez had married one of Franco's physicians. So, one of Franco's physicians passed what he knew to his wife, who passed it to Ortega-Perez, who passed it to Eisenhower and/or others in that group, and from there the information was grabbed hold of by U.S. Intelligence. Parker insists that Martin Bormann did not die in Germany, as West German officials had declared. "I can assure you that Martin Bormann did not die in Berlin. He looked very much alive, in March of 1975, in a villa outside of Madrid, Spain, where I went to negotiate the liquidation of various tons of gold which were turned into perfect Krugerrands." That is the second part of the story: what happened to the gold after it got to Spain. The gold remained in Spain, in care of Francisco Franco, until circa 1975. Then, with Franco about to expire, things began to happen. With Franco nearing his end, other factors occurred at about this same time; said factors coalescing to bring about "Phase II" of "What Happened To The Nazi Gold?" As Parker tells it, the closing of the Suez Canal and subsequent shortages of "Portland-grade cement" came together as chips to be used by international power brokers in a complicated deal. The details of said deal are beyond the scope of this article. For further information, again, get hold of the tape of the original, July 29, 1993 broadcast. "If you'll remember, at this particular point in time, we got rid of American's not being able to own gold. And the big push was Krugerrands. And you could buy 'em through Merrill-Lynch and Hutton and what have you. It's easy to counterfeit perfect Krugerrands if you've got gold." According to Parker, the gold was turned into counterfeit Krugerrands and sold in the biggest potential market of that time: The United States of America. If you have doubts, then Parker asks you to consider the following: even though Americans were buying a lot of gold at that time, because of the sudden legality that now they were allowed to do so, the price of gold did not climb; it stayed flat. "The only explanation for that is that somebody is bringing in a new supply of gold." Tom Valentine, host of Radio Free America, summed it up: "Tons of Krugerrands, phony Krugerrands, made from the Nazi Germany gold... This was actually turned into Krugerrands and they put it into the market."

The discovery of the main gold reef in 1886 in the Johannesburg area changed the history of South Africa. No other event in the 20th century had such a great impact on the political and economic history of South Africa. The shimmering beauty of pure gold has captivated the country. In the 1960’s, the promotion of South African gold was considered vital, not least as an investment. The chosen vehicle to drive this demand, and developed by the Chamber of Mines of South Africa, the world’s first ounce-denominated gold coin, the Krugerrand, was struck at the South African Mint on the 3 July 1967. These 1 troy-ounce gold bullion coins were mass produced to enable the “man in the street” to purchase gold easily and with confidence. In 1980 the fractional Krugerrands (? oz, ? oz and 1/10 oz) were added to the 1 oz Krugerrand to assist the smaller buyer to obtain gold at an affordable price. The Krugerrand is still minted in the traditional 22 carat gold. Proof quality Krugerrands are available as limited editions only. Each individual coin and set is packed with care and is issued with a numbered certificate of authenticity. A 21st century Krugerrand symbolises South Africa’s rich gold heritage. The name Krugerrand was derived from KRUGER (President Paul Kruger) and RAND the monetary unit of South Africa. The Rand is associated with the area called Witwatersrand, "the ridge of white water" an important gold producing area. When Intergold was established as a subsidiary of the Chamber of Mines in South Africa, they took over the distribution of the uncirculated (bullion) Krugerrand (with 180 serrations) while the proof Krugerrand (with 220 serrations) was sold by the South African Mint. The bullion Krugerrand is linked to the daily gold price while the proof Krugerrand is available in limited quantities with a yearly fixed price. As a numismatic coin, the proof Krugerrand has been eagerly sought after by coin collectors.

http://ahoy.tk-jk.net/macslog/TheGoldenCruiser.HMSEdinb.html

The Gold The twist in the tragic tale of the Edinburgh is that, at the time of her sinking, she was carrying a 4.5 ton consignment of gold bullion, which formed part of Stalin's payment for the supplies that the Allies were shipping to the USSR. The 465 gold ingots, carried in ninety-three wooden boxes, were being transported in the armoured bomb-rooms situated on the starboard side of the vessel, not far from the original torpedo's impact point. At the time, the estimated worth of the bullion was somewhere in the region of ?1,547,080 sterling. Salvaging The Bullion In 1954, the British Government offered the salvage rights to the Edinburgh to Risdon Beazley Ltd., a salvage company operating out of the UK, but the project was put on hold, due to strained political relations between the West and the Soviet Union. In 1957, the wreck was designated as a war grave, which complicated any salvage attempts still further. In the late 1970s, interest in the Edinburgh was reawakened, and the British Government was becoming increasingly anxious to recover the gold. This was not only because would it provide further valuable revenue for the Exchequer, but because there was also a growing fear of the wreck being pirated by unscrupulous salvagers, or, worse, salvaged by the Soviet Union, in whose waters it lay. In the early 1980s, a company called Jessop Marine, run by seasoned diver Keith Jessop, won the contract for the salvage rights to the wreck of the Edinburgh. Jessop won the contract because his methods, involving complex cutting machinery and divers, were deemed more appropriate for a war grave, compared to the explosives-oriented methods of other companies. In April 1981, the survey ship Dammtor began searching for the wreck in the Barents Sea, on behalf of Jessop Marine. After only ten days, they discovered the ship's final resting place at an approximate position of 72.00?N, 35.00?E, at a depth of 245 metres (800 feet). Using specialist camera equipment, the Dammtor took detailed film of the wreck, which allowed Jessop and his divers to carefully plan the salvage operation. Later that year, on 30 August, the dive-support vessel Stephaniturm journeyed to the site, and salvage operations began in earnest. Several divers were injured during the operation, but on 15 September 1981, a diver finally penetrated the bomb room and recovered a bar of gold. On 7 October, bad weather finally forced the suspension of diving operations, but by that time, 431 of 465 ingots had been recovered, now worth in excess of ?43,000,000 sterling.

Lieutenant Tom Tanswel, 27, of 58 Battery 12 Regiment Royal Artillery, was killed in a road accident just outside Shaibah Logistics Base near the city of Basra, southern Iraq, on 27 October 2006. The total number of UK troops killed in operations in Iraq has risen to 120 after a soldier died following a road accident just outside Shaibah Logistics Base near the city of Basra on 27 October 2006. Lieutenant Tom Tanswell, 27, of 58 Battery 12 Regiment Royal Artillery, was killed in a road accident just outside Shaibah Logistics Base near the city of Basra, southern Iraq, on 27 October 2006. The Londoner joined the Army in 2004 after gaining a degree in management and marketing from the University of Manchester, and working as the area manager for a major supermarket group. In Iraq, he was a multiple commander, responsible for 12 men, manning three vehicles. The MoD said he often escorted Danish Military Police and reconstruction teams and was well-liked by his peers. His commanding officer in Iraq, Major Marcus Tivey, said: "He was leading from the front when he was killed, which typified the way he conducted himself. "Prior to deploying to Iraq Tom had been praised by his superiors on numerous exercises, and while on operations he had made his mark as a rising star."

Have you seen this? 'Gold teeth stolen while owner slept' A Florida man claims someone reached into his mouth and stole his gold teeth as he slept. Bryan Osteen, of Mims, Brevard Country, rang police to complain about the theft, reports Local6.com News. Osteen told officers that someone entered his bedroom and took the ?40 teeth out of his mouth. He said he had friends at his home and believes one of them had something to do with the crime. Osteen said he did not wake up because he is a heavy sleeper, according to a Brevard County Sheriff's Office report.

Came across this whilst surfing the net thought it might be of interest....... Egyptians To Sue 'The Jews' Over 'Stolen' Exodus Gold Egypt, the enlightened locale for last year's ''Protocols of the Elders of Zion'' television program, is now the source of even more anti-Semitic hatred. According to MEMRI.org, a group of Egyptians living in Switzerland, is planning to sue ''all the Jews of the world'' over gold that was allegedly stolen during the biblical exodus of the Israelites from Egypt. While this bigotry is infuriating, the utter ludicrousness of it all makes it read more like a comedy sketch. Seriously, you couldn't make this stuff up! The August 9, 2003 edition of the Egyptian weekly Al-Ahram Al-Arabi featured an interview with Dr. Nabil Hilmi, dean of the faculty of law at the University of Al-Zaqaziq. The following are excerpts from the interview: Dr. Hilmi: ''. Since the Jews make various demands of the Arabs and the world, and claim rights that they base on historical and religious sources, a group of Egyptians in Switzerland has opened the case of the so-called 'great exodus of the Jews from Pharaonic Egypt.' At that time, they stole from the Pharaonic Egyptians gold, jewelry, cooking utensils, silver ornaments, clothing, and more, leaving Egypt in the middle of the night with all this wealth, which today is priceless.'' Question: ''What will the group of Egyptians in Switzerland do about this issue?'' Hilmi: ''Dr. Gamil Yaken, vice president of the Egyptian community in Switzerland, came to Egypt to collect information. We set up a legal team to prepare the necessary legal confrontation aimed at restoring what the Jews stole a long time ago, to which the statute of limitations cannot possibly apply. Furthermore, [the theft] is based on their holy book, the same source on which they relied when they invaded other peoples. ''The Egyptian Pharaoh was surprised one day to discover thousands of Egyptian women crying under the palace balcony, asking for help and complaining that the Jews stole their clothing and jewels, in the greatest collective fraud history has ever known. ''The theft was not limited to gold alone. The thieves stole everything imaginable. They emptied the Egyptian homes of cooking utensils. One of the women approached Pharaoh, her eyes downcast, and said that her Jewish neighbor who lived in the house on the right of her house had come to her and asked to borrow her gold items, claiming she had been invited to a wedding. The Jewish neighbor took [the items] and promised to return them the next day. A few minutes later, the neighbor to the left knocked on the door and asked to borrow the cooking utensils, because she was having guests for dinner. Using this same deceitful system, they took possession of all the cooking utensils.'' Question: ''It is clear why they stole the gold, but why the cooking utensils?'' Hilmi: ''Taking posession of the gold was understandable. This is clear theft of a host country's resources and treasure, something that fits the morals and character of the Jews. Yet what was not clear to the Egyptian women were the reasons for stealing the cooking utensils, when other things may have been of greater value. However, one of the Egyptian priets said that this had been the Jews' twisted way throughout history; they seek to cause a minor problem connected with the needs of everyday life so as to occupy people with these matters and prevent them from pursuing them to get back the stolen gold... ''A police investigation revealed that Moses and Aaron, peace be upon them, understood that it was impossible to live in Egypt, despite its pleasures and even though the Egyptians included them in every activity, due to the Jews' perverse nature, to which the Egyptians had reconciled themselves, though with obvious unwillingness. Therefore, an order was issued by the Jewish rabbis to flee the country, and that the exodus should be secret and under cover of darkness and with the largest possible amount of loot. The code word was 'At midnight.' In addition, the Jewish women were told to steal the gold and cooking utensils of the Egyptian women, and that is what happened.'' Question: ''Did they leave individually or as a group?'' Hilmi: ''They left in a convoy of 600,000, that is, about 120,000 families. There were a few wagons in the convoy, and a long line of donkeys loaded with the stolen goods. They crossed the desert in the heart of Sinai, in an attempt to confuse Pharaoh's army, which was on their trail. Later they rested and began to count the stolen gold, and discovered that it reached 300,000 kg of gold.'' Question: ''So what arguments can be made in support of getting back our stolen gold?'' Hilmi: ''There are two types of claims, one religious and the other legal. From a religious standpoint, all monotheistic religions have called not to steal. It is also in the Ten Commandments, which the Jews were ordered [to observe]. Therefore, they have a basic religious obligation to return what was stolen, if it exists. ''From a legal standpoint, fleeing with the Egyptians' goods could be for the purpose of borrowing or for the purpose of stealing. If it is for the purpose of borrowing, legally it has a temporary dimension, not a permanent dimension, and therefore they must return [the gold], with interest, to its owners. ''On the other hand, if the Jews took the goods from the Egyptians not for the purpose of borrowing it but to keep them for themselves, by legal norms this is theft, and therefore they must return the stolen goods to their owners, in addition to the interest for its use over the entire period of the theft.'' Question: ''What do you think is the value of the gold, silver, and clothing that was stolen, and how do you calculate their value today?'' Hilmi: ''If we assume that the weight of what was stolen was one ton, [its worth] doubled every 20 years, even if the annual interest is only 5%. In one ton of gold is 700 kg of pure gold - and we must remember that what was stolen was jewelry, that is, alloyed with copper. Hence, after 1,000 years, it would be worth 1,125,898,240 million tons, which equals 1,125,898 billion tons for 1,000 years. In other words, 1,125 trillion tons of gold, that is, a million multiplied by a million tons of gold. This is for one stolen ton. The stolen gold is estimated at 300 tons, and it was not stolen for 1,000 years, but for 5,758 years, by the Jewish reckoning. Therefore, the debt is very large. ''The value must be calculated precisely in accordance with the information collected, and afterward a lawsuit must be filed against all the Jews of the world, and against the Jews of Israel in particular, so they will repay the Egyptians the debt that appears in the Torah.'' Question: ''Is a compromise solution possible?'' Hilmi: ''There may be a compromise solution. The debt can be rescheduled over 1,000 years, with the addition of the cumulative interest during that period.''

It now appears that the MOD have sold off all their Sovereigns, and replaced them with ounce Krugerrands. The thinking behind it I believe is that Sovereigns would suggest to the enemy that the soldier/airman was British were as the use of Krugerrand would suggest otherwise. Also they appear only to be issued with about 5 Krugerrands as apposed to 20 Sovereigns, which I suppose is easier to hide round the body, however, a Krugerrand being valued at about ?350 & a Sovereign at about ?80, means that I suppose you`d get less for your money, and you`d have to want something pretty bad, in order to part with a Krugerrand, we`d have to be talking passage over the border or buying a vehicle, as apposed to say some food or the like which a Sovereign would buy? But having said that if your in the sh#t, then gold talks whatever its face value.

Period US UK Other* Total Avg Days 10-2006 90 1 2 93 3.88 24 9-2006 71 3 2 76 2.53 30 8-2006 65 1 0 66 2.13 31 7-2006 43 1 2 46 1.48 31 6-2006 61 0 2 63 2.1 30 5-2006 69 9 1 79 2.55 31 4-2006 76 1 5 82 2.73 30 3-2006 31 0 2 33 1.06 31 2-2006 55 3 0 58 2.07 28 1-2006 62 2 0 64 2.06 31 12-2005 68 0 0 68 2.19 31 11-2005 84 1 1 86 2.87 30 10-2005 96 2 1 99 3.19 31 9-2005 49 3 0 52 1.73 30 8-2005 85 0 0 85 2.74 31 7-2005 54 3 1 58 1.87 31 6-2005 78 1 4 83 2.77 30 5-2005 80 2 6 88 2.84 31 4-2005 52 0 0 52 1.73 30 3-2005 35 1 3 39 1.26 31 2-2005 58 0 2 60 2.14 28 1-2005 107 10 10 127 4.1 31 12-2004 72 1 3 76 2.45 31 11-2004 137 4 0 141 4.7 30 10-2004 63 2 2 67 2.16 31 9-2004 80 3 4 87 2.9 30 8-2004 66 4 5 75 2.42 31 7-2004 54 1 3 58 1.87 31 6-2004 42 1 7 50 1.67 30 5-2004 80 0 4 84 2.71 31 4-2004 135 0 5 140 4.67 30 3-2004 52 0 0 52 1.68 31 2-2004 20 1 2 23 0.79 29 1-2004 47 5 0 52 1.68 31 12-2003 40 0 8 48 1.55 31 11-2003 82 1 27 110 3.67 30 10-2003 44 1 2 47 1.52 31 9-2003 31 1 1 33 1.1 30 8-2003 35 6 2 43 1.39 31 7-2003 48 1 0 49 1.58 31 6-2003 30 6 0 36 1.2 30 5-2003 37 4 0 41 1.32 31 4-2003 74 6 0 80 2.67 30 3-2003 65 27 0 92 7.67 12 Total 2803 119 119 3041 2.31 1315

Cheers E, thats a smashing collection. My Dad is entitled to three of the medlas in your collection.

WOW!!!!!!! Cheers guys!!!!!!!!!

Cheers Dave thats really interesting thanks for sharing it with us!!!!

Cheers Guys, thats really interesting, thanks!!!!!!!

Anyone under British command, D.O.W, friendly fire, accidents, etc,etc.

Cheers Marcus, have ammended the Gulf loses.