Claudio

Dear all, Here's one of my prettiest Saxon ribbon bar: ? Eisernes Kreuz 2. Klasse ? Sachsen-K?nigreich, Zivildienstorden RK 1. Klasse mit Schwertern ? Sachsen-K?nigreich, Albrechtsorden 1. Kl. mit Schwertern ? Preussen, Rotes Kreuz Medaille 3. Klasse ? Ehrenkreuz f?r Frontk?mpfer (OEK 3803) ? Sachsen-K?nigreich, Albrechtsorden 1. Klasse ? Sachsen-K?nigreich, DA f. 25 Jahre ? Preussen, Roter Adler Orden 4. Klasse ? Braunschweig, Heinrich des L?wen Orden, RK 1. Klasse Research of Daniel Krause (many thanks! great job! ): Fritz Albert Heinrich Graf von Schimmelmann, born 1861, alive obviously in 1934. Lt 29.09.83, OLt 12.11.90, Rittm 25.06.95, Maj 22.04.05, OTL 16.05.15. He went 1909 z.D. from Staff of Ulan Rgt. 18. Was recalled for WW1; in 1915 Delegierter der freiwilligen Krankenpflege bei der Kriegslazarettdirektion XIX, later in General Staff of the 24th InfDiv. Became Johanniter Ehrenritter 30.03.1900, got RAO4 15.09.1903, 1906 the Saxon XXV and 15.03.06 his BrH3a; SA3a 24.05.07, ?promoted? to Johanniter Rechtsritter 11.08.1908, followed by a Spanish Military Merit Order 2nd class 13.10.1908. In WW1 he received the swords and the crown to his SA3a 28.09.1915 and got a SV3aX 18.11.1916. His Prussian RKM 3 is nowhere mentioned but logically as he was Krankenpflegedelegierter. His EK is also most likely. He wears his peacetime Albert incorrectly as a double award by the side of his SA3aXmKr. The Johanniter as neck decoration and the Spanish MMO2 as a small breast star were worn in original size. Rick Lundstr?m?s addition (good job as well... congrats! ): Count Schimmelmann's family was Danish, raised to that degree of nobility in the 18th century. What his branch was doing in Saxony, Lord alone knows! He was born in Promnitz 14 August of 1861. The award roll for the Crown and Swords to his Albert-Knight 1st Class (only 29 instances recorded WW1) merely lists him as a "Major a.D." As Daniel has said, he was supposed to have replaced his peacetime Knight 1st with the wartime "upgrade", but apparently continued wearing both, which was possible though not the situation in his case. But his Saxon Merit Order-Knight 1st Class X (one of 400 listed) was as Oberstleutnant aD (extra thick state "V"s in shoulder boards to indicate what was "zV" status in WW2 was on the General Staff, 24th Division).? The bummer of this purchase of mine is that I bid on von Schimmelmann's "Miniaturkettchen" but couldn't win it... Ciao, Claudio

I liked your medal bar very much, Bob. Here's my brother's bar (Frackspange) with an Eisb?r (polar bar, nick name for the Ritterzeichen 2. Klasse) and Anhalt Friedrich's cross 2nd class. Ciao, Claudio

The last cross is pretty rare... it was awarded from 1906 until 1919: Sicherheitdienst-Auszeichnung 2. Klasse der Gendarmerie und Schutzmannschaften f?r 20 Jahre Dienstzeit, am 22.2.1906 von Prinzregent Luitpold gestiftet O&EK 2001-2002 lists it for Eur 179.-! Ciao, Claudio

Hi Mike, Like many other Ritterkreuz 1. Kl. Orders there were in Gold (2nd class was normally silver), but usually there were many variations of quality of the material. Normally pre-WWI awarded pieces or early WWI pieces were awarded in pure Gold (very light type of construction... mostly hollow produced) and later in Silver gilted. The class was the same (1st class) but the type of material different. The real golden orders are the most desirable by collectors but also the most expensive, logically. Ciao, Claudio

Hi Jens! Hi Stogie! That's more than sad... it's just unbelievable! It's not the first time that I have read lately about thefts of entire collections on commission, but that thieves are ready to kill to steal Militaria is really very worrying. My brother told me several times I shouldn't post my medals on different forums. Everybody can browse on our collectors' forums get some info about collection and their location and steal from them. Just the thought of that is very disturbing to say the least! I am referring also to some special sections of specialized Militaria forums where collectors can show their collectibles and their displays. I don't even want to think how many dishonest people could follow these threads and? well I better don?t even think about it, that scares me! Just my 2 cents... Ciao, Claudio

Mike, I got my FO 1. Kl. silver gilted from Detlev Niemann two years ago and I paid Eur 420.- without case! The Orden&Ehrenzeichen Catalogue of J?rg Nimmergut edition 2001-02, although we can argue with most of his price evaluations, values a FO 1. Kl. in Gold for Eur 716.- and its silver gilted version for Eur 435.- (O&E catalogue no. 2981). During WWI were awarded 1766 FO 1. Kl. with swords; much less than a knight cross of the iron cross in WWII! Don't worry mike; you really made a good deal buying it! Ciao, Claudio

Just to add something: your FO 1. Kl. seems to be silver gilted and its value can be more of what you paid. Gold ones can go easily for more the double of a silver gilted piece. It's a nice cross with its original case... not easy to find! Congrats!! 2nd class crosses are already going for that price! Ciao, Claudio

@ Rick: the SEHO looks to me like a RK 1. Kl., silver gilted. Here I am posting the image. Furthermore the seller sells also his Komturkreuz SEHO, that's why I tend to believe that is a 1st class cross. @ Ulsterman: I am not aware of the practice of giving back orders for the Danish Dannebrog order, but I think that if that foreigh order had been bestowed on German citizen, it would have been unlikely that the family of the deceased person would send it back to the Chancery of the Dannebrog order which was in a foreign country. How could that chancery know that the order recipient has died and request the order to be sent back? Ciao, Claudio

Dear all, On Ebay I found this medal bar being put on a Ebay auction: http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6229514926 The combination looks quite incredible, but I am quite skeptical. The Ebay seller has also a SEHO Kumturkreuz of the same medal bar's wearer. The ribbons look too clean... and on the other hand the SEHO ribbon looks so ruined! I would definitely have a blacklight test. Furthermore the backing is not cleanly made. Strange for such a spectacular medal bar with so many enamelled orders! The order missing must be the Danish Dannebrog order, which you can sometimes (but rarely) encounter on German imperial medal bars. Why is only this particular order missing from the bar? Strange, too! Was it too tough to find and put it on the bar or was is taken away from someone because was in Gold and wanted to sell it separetely? Another thing that bothers me is that evidently this guy was either a medical officer or a beamter (see the Prussian RKM and the Prussian War merit cross for civilians), but he nevertheless was awarded with an incredible array of military/bravery crosses and the SEHO with swords. Mmmmh... strange. What do you think? I would really appreciate your comments on this one! Ciao, Claudio

Hi Chris, The value of the pin can vary if the pin is silver or maker marked... I would say around Eur 100.-. Here I am sending you an offer of a large selection of miniatures from a collector/dealer I personally know, just as reference. Niemann lists the price of Prussian WWI pilot badges on his latest catalogue, but keep in my mind that Bavarian pilot badges are much rarer. Niemann's catalogue price of a Prussian WWI pilot badge is: Miniature 9 mm : USD/EUR 50.- Miniature 16 mm: USD/EUR 80.- Miniature 30 mm: USD/EUR 350.- Your seems to be a 9mm Miniature, right? Ciao, Claudio

Hi Paul, I was browsing on Ebay when I saw this: http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6226334062 Too bad that the ring of the Golden 333 Medal is missing... Ciao, Claudio

Dear All: Here's my Bavarian Veteran's group and the description of the medals of the larger medal bar (all you can wear 20ies style): 1) Bayern, Milit?rverdienstkreuz 4. Klasse mit Krone und Schwertern 2) Eisernes Kreuz 1914, 2. Klasse 3) Preussisches Kriegs-Erinnerungskreuz f?r Kombattanten mit Schwertern 4) Ehren- und Erinnerungskreuz des Marinecorps Flandern mit Spangen "Yser", "Ypern" und "Antwerpen" 5) 22. Inf. Div. (Bayern) Erinnerungskreuz 6) Deutscher Reichkriegerbund "Kyffh?user", Kriegsdenkm?nze 1914-18 mit Spangen "Flandern u. Artois", "Verdun", "Arras-Albert", "Vormarsch 1914" und "Warschau" 7) Ungarn Kriegserinnerungsmedaille, 1. WK 8) Deutsche Ehrendenkm?nze des Weltkrieges mit Kampfabzeichen der Ehrenlegion Link: http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/sho...veteran+claudio Ciao, Claudio

Hi Paul, Are you sure the medal is silver gilted? Did you weight the medal? Bretzendorfer is known to be very knowledgeable militaria dealer, specialized particularly in W?rttemberg's Orders & Medal pre-1918. I like your bar, but since I am "ignorant" on these medals, I would tend to rely on Bretzendorfer's comment. He had also a nice Golden military medal lately on his website for sale and a couple of years ago Detlev Niemann's had also an Officer's medal bar for sale. I remember that Detlev's medal bar was really nice, though pricy. If you want to "real thing" and not risk, I would send it back, wait a real Golden one and be prepared to pay more. Just my 2 cents. Ciao, Claudio P.S.: I enclose Detlev Niemann's medal bar with the real Gold military (bravery) medal.

Yes Stogie... Let's say that if I had to buy such medal I would make sure that it's a 333 or 585 Gold medal... Ciao, Claudio

Dear All, There is an interesting threat on a German Forum about this medal (W?rttemberg Golden Military Medal): http://forum.sammlergemeinschaft-deutscher...fb5557781007954 Particularly there is a very interesting comment of a quite well known and specialized expert in W?rttemberg's Orders and Medals, Mr. Bretzendorfer, who is also a good dealer of Imperial decorations: Es wurde festgelegt, dass die goldenen Medaillen mit einem Gewicht von 4 Dukaten auszupr?gen sind. 1 Dukat = 3,40 g. Das hei?t: 4 Dukaten = 13,6 Gramm und so viel m?ssen / sollen echt goldene MVM wiegen - und das tun sie auch. Wenn man nun hochkr?tiges Gold nimmt wie 22 kar?tiges - dann sind die Medaillenrohlinge deutlich d?nner !!! als bei minderwertigem Gold. soll hei?en - hochkar?tige echt goldene Medaillen sind gerade mal halb so dick / stark wie die aus 333er Gold. Und die von dir angesprochenen 585er Medaillen hats gegeben, die sind nicht mehr ganz d?nn, aber auch noch nicht so dick wie die 333er goldenen. (ca. 500 hergestellte in 585er Gold, ca. 150 hergestellte in 22 kar?tigem Gold und der gro?e Rest von rund 3800 in 333 Gold). Wichtig ist, alle Beliehenen haben immer eine ECHT goldene Medaille erhalten, bis zum letzten Kriegstag. Daraus ergibt sich die Erkenntnis, dass Silber vergoldete St?cke bestenfalls St?cke aus den 2oer Jahren sind, viel wahrscheinlicher aber von Vergoldern aus den 70ern und 80ern. Ich habe noch nie einen gesicherten Nachlass gesehen, bei dem eine Silber vergoldete Medaille war. W?rttemberg ist ein sparsames Land gewesen - was die Urkunden angeht. Ich kenne keine offiziell verausgabte Urkunde zur silbernen bzw. goldenen MVM. Nur auf Regimentsebene ausgestellte Besitzzeugnisse in mal guter und mal schlechter Aufmachung. Aber das Kriegsministerium hat keine Urkunden ausgegeben - wohlgemerkt im Weltkrieg. F?r China- und Afrikak?mpfer gibt es sehr wohl offizielle Urkunden. He says that only golden medals have been given out during WWI (333 or 585 Gold) and that you could easily distinguish these ones by the weight. He says also that he never has seen a silver gilted medal which came from a well documented source. Mmm... interesting! Ciao, Claudio

Hi Bob, It's an order of the Grandduchy of Luxembourg: Ordre de la Couronne de Ch?ne, in English order of the Oak Crown. Ciao, Claudio

Stogie! No, the seller didn't even mention it... my brother just saw it when it first received it that the MM was on the bottom arm of the cross. Ciao, Claudio

better scans of the medallion...

Bigger and new scan...

Description of the seller...

Hi everybody, I got more info about this RAO 3rd class... the weight without ribbon (it's impossible to measure it with precision, because the ring of the cross cannot be detached from the bar) is about 23-25 g and the whole bar weights about 35 g. It's quite light for such a medal... It's marked mark W for Wagner, contrary to Andreas' first impression that affirmed that it could have been a "Neuhaus". I am afraid that it's quite sure not an original cross or original parts put together... what do you think (Andreas)? In the enclosure I am sending another scan. Accornding to my brother comments the crown should be definitely silber gilted (the gold wash is really weak). I hope that with this info you can elaborate a definitive comment (bad or good) on this cross. I really appreciate your time and your expertise!.... I am still learning... it's a long way. I should follow a course about how to recognise precious metals and jewelry, so that in future they won't screw me so easily... Ciao, Claudio

Details of the oakleaves.... What do you think??? Pleaaase help me!!!!

@ Andreas und Stogie: Here better scans of the medallion, obverse and reverse. I do not have this cross in front of me (my brother has) and he told me that the hand painting of the eagle looks almost like a "decal"... man! When I heard that it raised my hair... The cross itself with the Oakleaves and without the ribbon weights about 25,5 g. Nimmergut gives the weight of a 2nd class in Gold with Oakleaves 22.76 g.

Dear forumites, I am posting a RAO 2nd class with oakleaves in Gold (OEK 1664). Since we already had a quite long thread about a RAO 3. Kl. mit Krone u. Schwertern I wanted to make sure that this is a good one and ask for your most appreciated comments on this cross... Here's the cross... Ciao, Claudio

@ Jens: Beautiful cute medal bar you have! I really like these with the tailor's tag on the back. It gives you the opportunity to compare with other bars of the same maker. Too bad that the pin on the reverse is missing @ Rick: That is interesting to know Max Reich was an official maker of the Schlesischer Adler... My brother has (you can guess...) a single mounted Schlesischer Adler 2. Kl. of Max Reich! He has also a full medal bar of a Austrian WWI officer veteran with his tag on the back of the bar. You can easily distinguish MR's bars, because medals and especially ribbons are nicely and very tightly put together with the particular flat bottom of the ribbon. Very nice! Ciao, Claudio