Claudio

and again... the funny thing about these mountings is that their needle system seems to be completely time period and look similar to the backing of the medal bars being worn before WWII or even sooner.

Just another example of an "impossible" bar... bought from Niemann, but nevertheless original!

Rick, Andreas, I remember about 10 years ago a major Auction House in Hamburg sold a large collection of single mounted medal bars which came from a window of a dealer who had them exposed in his shop before WWII. Many of them were still attached to a board and many of them were Imperial medals. Some of them are in my brother's collection and don't even have the needle on the back. But they look nice. Of course it's impossible that an officer would have worn it alone. To me as a collector it's fine if I am sure that the medal or order is an original and period made. The mounting is just a decoration. Many veterans also liked to display their medals in framed windows with their ribbons folded in a decorative way. As far as the medal is ok... no problem for me. And what about the many medal bars which have been torn apart to take away the most prestigious or costly awards? I am just interested to know if this RAO is a pre-1918 made cross. Ciao, Claudio

Hi Andreas, That was clear... you can see from the pictures that it's a silver gilted piece. Godet wasn't so prolific making as other juwellers (like Wagner), was he? Or at least I didn't see so many RAO being offered. Also the arms of the cross seem different (wider at the base with the medallion). But I suppose every maker had his own style, especially considering the hand-painted red eagles. Ciao, Claudio

It's really impressive, Joe, but I don't know if such crosses should be completely in Gold, or just the medallion, or the medallion and the swords or also the crown. Only 6 awarded are known according to Andreas, 5 in Gold, pre-war awards bestowed during the Colonial campaigns from 1905 til 1908, and 1 silver gilted awarded to von Richthofen and made by Godet. Here are the links of the very interesting webpages of Andreas: http://www.medalnet.net/Rote_Adler_3_Krone_Schwertern.htm http://www.medalnet.net/Rote_Adler_3.htm The question is: are the swords really hohlgepr?gt (2 separate stamped pieces and hollow inside) and if it's very likely made of Gold or are one piece and silver gilted? Boh? Could this cross be a post 1918 made RAO? Don't know... Please enlight me. Here's Zeige's "poor" description: Roter Adler Orden, Kreuz 3. Klasse mit Schwertern und Krone. Gold emailliert, feine Emaillemalerei des Medaillons, gepr?gte Schwerter, die Krone Silber vergoldet, emailliert und beweglich, an Einzelbandspange. Thanks again for looking into it! Ciao, Claudio

Pic of the reverse:

Dear all: Herewith I would like to show you a fine piece being on sale on the latest Zeige's auction. According to the description of this article the cross is made of GOLD and the crown "Silber vergoldet"... What do you think? Andreas comment on that is required, since he's such a RAO's lover... Btw, beautiful website you have Andreas! Very informative!! Ciao, Claudio Picture of the front:

On behalf of my brothers many thanks for the nice comments. The reason why my brother is not posting is that his English, although not so bad, is not fluent, especially in writing. Furthermore he's more a quiet and discrete guy than his brother! Ciao, Claudio

nice one Jens! Too keep the ball rolling I post my brother's completely non-combattant bar! Description: ? Preussen, EK 2. Klasse 1914 am Nichtk?mpferband, nur ca. 13?000 Verleihungen! (OEK 1909) ? Preussen, Verdienstkrez f?r Kriegshilfe, 1916-24 (OEK 1966) ? Preussen, Rote Kreuz Medaille, 2. Klasse (OEK 1871) ? Preussen, Rote Kreuz Medaille, 3. Klasse (OEK 1872) ? Oldenburg, Kriegsverdienstmedaille, 1917-1918 (OEK 1565) ? Deutsches Reich, Ehrenkreuz f?r Kriegsteilnehmer (OEK 3803/2) ? Preussen, Centenarmedaille 1897 (OEK 1965) @Jason: very nice bar you have... strange that the FAK 2. Kl. and the EK 2. Kl. aren't on non-combattant ribbons, too! But I guess since Germans weren't so precise as we might think, I think such miss-matched combinations of combattant and non-combattant medals on the same bar come up quite frequently. In Italian we say that "l'eccezione fa la regola"... Ciao, Claudio

Hi Everybody! My little brother Marco just added another fine single mounted RAO 4th class. This is marked J . H . W.: Do you know what that is for? I found in my files just a maker/Hersteller that might be correct if it was not for the order of the initials: Wilm = H. J. Wilm, Berlin, Hof- und Silberschmiede Is my assumption correct? Thanks in advance for your kind replies. Ciao, Claudio

Joe, I am happy for you! Sometimes you come across such immaculate pieces.... I have also one medal bar with very brand new looking ribbons: a Bavarian bar ... even tougher, because it seems that Bavarian were quite proud to wear more often bars at every occasion - more traditional part of Germany - and also the Bavarian light blue looses so easily its original colour... Nice found! What you want more ... Ciao, Claudio

Hi Joe! Beautiful bar The ribbons surely look like brand new... and that even almost after 90 years! I don't want to be to picky or critical, but did you try to make a blacklight test the bright looking white parts ribbons? I have never seen such an immaculate white on ribbons of the Hanseatenkreuz Hamburg and the RAO 4th class. Nowadays you're never 100% sure... My congratulations again for your great mint looking bar! Ciao, Claudio

Dear all, I just wanted to add another picture of a S?chsische Spange featuring these particular and odd style of mounting medals together. This was on ebay some months ago... Ciao, Claudio

Detail of the Steck/Offizierskreuz...

this is a black and white scan of Zeige's catalogue...

What about this spange? It was on Zeige's catalogue, I think last year. It came with other medals of the same recipient (officer). It didn't sell the first time this bar came out on a auction's catalogue, but was sold later separately... The order of the medals, more precisely of the KVK 2. Kl. without swords (also with the front worn backwards), is not correct, but I think it was quite a common mistake to misplace medals like KVK or WiO. If Jens' bar is rare... imagine this! Ciao, Claudio

Sehr Sch?n Jens! The military Merit medal with swords is not so common... I don't have a medal bar with such medal, yet...

It was on Thies Auction... tried to bid on it, unfortunately I wasn't successful. It's a very simple but to me "sexy" bar. The enameled Baden's LS Bar denotes a quite a delicate touch and particularly good taste of the wearer who had surely to be very "fashion aware" and maybe quite a rich guy... I've already seen such enameled LS bar beauties but only on Prussian medal bars, not on Baden's medal bars, which makes this bar definitely something rarer and very desirable. Something for our "Badener fetish" aka Antti... Ciao, Claudio

Thanks Rick... Here's a picture of a bar with the VK OZL on Friedensband supporting my statement. Ciao, Claudio

Dear all, Just a detail more: the Verdienstkreuz of the Order "Z?hringer der L?wen" should be worn on the first ribbon (yellow with two parallel narrow green stripes). This ribbon was meant for the VK in peacetime. In war time or for merits at the front the VK was awarded to senior NCOs with the war time ribbon (yellow with wide red stripe in the middle). Ciao, Claudio

@ Chip: you're quite right. It seems like the ribbon for another veterans' decoration. I know that there was a very similar ribbon to be worn on the such Treu der Batt/Regt. crosses for the Kriegsmarine, but then the inscription on the cross shouldn't be Treu der Marine? By the colour of the fabric on the back of this bar (dark red), it doesn't seem to be Kriegsmarine, though... Ciao, Claudio

Hi Bob! Nice bar you got... I still have to find a medal bar with the Mecklemburg's Tapfer und Treu cross. The owner of this bar was a bit naughty... he shouldn't have put his "Treu dem Bat/Rgt" cross on this bar, since these veterans' decoration were not permitted to wear after the introduction of the "Ehrenkreuz f?r Frontk?mpfer". Nevertheless a really nice bar! congratulations! Ciao, Claudio

Yes Joe, all Waldeck's decoration are rare, since the principality of Waldeck was a very little state: by 1910 had only 60'000 inhabitants on 1'120 Km2 or 340 square miles. The here shown Waldeck's silver merit medal seems to me to be the first model (altes Modell 1878). Accordingly Gert Efler's book (Die Orden & Ehrenzeichen des F?rstentums Waldeck und Pyrmont, ISBN 3-926621-31-1, published in 2004) between 1878-1918 these silver medals were awarded to meritous citizen, traders, commerciants and people working in the local industry. A silver medal costed in 1884 7,30 Reichsmark, in 1908 RM 6,75, in 1913 RM 6,00 and 1915 RM 8,50. Efler mention that about 5'422 silver medals were awarded in this period, of which 4'200 were issued with swords. The first medal was given to a Revierf?rster on 26.09.1878 (silb. VDM). I hope this helped. Ciao, Claudio

Hi Joe, The medals are: W?rttemberg Wilhelmskreuz (Wilhelm's cross) W?rttemberg Silberne Hochzeitsmedaille 1911 (silver wedding's medal 1911) Anhalt Silberne Verdienstmedaille zum Hausorden Albrecht des B?ren (silver merit medal of the order of Albert the bear) Silberne Verdienstmedaille Altenburg des Ernestinischen Hausordens (silver merit medal of the SEHO) Silberne Verdienstmedaille Waldeck (silver merit medal) K?nigreich Bulgarien Bronzene Verdienstmedaille mit Krone Zar Ferdinand (Kingdom Bulgaria, bronze medal with crown, king Ferdinand) Ciao, Claudio

Hi Guys! I like these combinations very much. As Rick said, sometimes you can find one of a kind combinations of awards... some of them are really interesting! I have seen some quite weird but beutiful array of medals given to Bandmasters, Meisterkutscher, etc... Here's the back of above mentioned bar. Ciao, Claudio