Yankee

Can you tell me if there should be any makers mark on the medal. There are some scratches and dings perhaps a very soft, high gold content. Thanks

A prized award for the lower ranks how excellent. Thanks for that info you provived Beau.

Can anybody say what rank one would have been to be given the gold medal. Thanks Yankee

Came across this solid silver example. Thinking French due to the suspension & WWI era. Pleae correct me if I'm wrong for Romania is new to me.

Hi David What an excellent site that has great informative research & easy to navigate through. Nice that you totally devoted your site to the Golden Lion especially since there is so little info on this rare & early beautiful order on the net. Good wishes. Sincerely Brian

Hi RaZpuTin Thanks for the size, you are correct that would make it a knight. Possible I'm incorrect about the country of manufacture. I know a good many of the early ones were of French make, after taking a really close look I think it is German after all. I think the ribbon should be the same for all.. I just have not seen enough of these to know about a special ribbon for foreigners.

Most likely French made due to the details of the crown. The cypher makes it an early piece, before 1864 to be certain.

Awarded to foreigners only without wreath. Very nice & rare piece Is that a Knight 1st class or Commander? Sincerely Yankee

I heard some time ago from another collector that the rich blue center on the obverse were dated to be the oldest examples and later came the light blue. No answer to when this change took place. I can only confirm what he says by viewing a Franco-Prussian group that surprisingly had a Italian Officer Crown (rich blue enamel center) with what looked to be the orginal thick hand stitched rosette. Hope it helps.

Only for the Dual Monarchy :beer:

Hi Kris Thanks ever so much for your informative answers . Clearly there is a lot to digest on the individual jewelers. Interesting to note the measurements stayed nearly the same amongst the jewelers and the life of the order. Are their any (obvious or minute) differences in your Spainish officer examples that set them apart? I know from experience that no two examples are ever identical from the first few years of an orders creation. Surprised that English firms had manufactured the order. The examples must have been of very high quality. I agree with those that believe in the Guelph influence. The only order that comes to my mind at the time that used swords between the crown & cross. Sincerely Brian

She has a good home, & her little friend inside is absolutely adorable. Thanks a lot Paul :beer:

Sometimes we come across a case that would be considerably more scarce than the order itself & this would be one of those times. An early made case for Saint Maurice & Saint Lazarus by V.MAYER'S SOHNE which confirms that Rothe was not the only supplier of orders & medals to the Italian States.

Congratulations in putting such a fine collection together from the beginning of its inception On your officer row is tha a Espgnol type ?The order looks very similar to the Legion Of Honor in design and class structure. Have the badges stayed fairly the same size in the last century and half or have they become larger? It is rare to come across the badges with the espagnol, bombe etroit & large bombe crowns. When I do come across such examples I see them to be small as 30mm and wide as 44mm. If the Begians did copy the French award system and stayed true to the French measurements , then the smaller early examples would be reduced sizes or by private jewelers to their interpretation or am I wrong. I assume the very early ones with the Espagnol Crown were made by French jewelers or were the Belgian firms such as Wolfers already in exstence? Thanks for sharing Sincerely Brian

Does anybody have the statutes from the time of Carlo Alberto. It would be nice to see a picture of the knight and know the size if that is mentionened as well. Thanks in advance

Thats great Do let us know if the statutes mention the sizes of the knight. Sincerely Brian

Hi Enzo You hit the nail on the head . That makes sence that the "trefoil" had gone though a transition over time. I recall seeing something like you described as being slightly raised. I just simply dismissed it as a foreign made piece or fantay . With the Prussian Red Eagle we can date them through their design change, hopefully we can do the same accurate way with the Saint Lazarus & Saint Maurce. Please do let us know what you uncover. Sincerely Brian

Hi Farmer Thanks for confirming that the raised circular edges had already been in existence prior to 1830. In the Spada book there are several fine examples of flat crosses all dating back to the very early 1800's all of slightly different design. I suppose back then they were made by local jewelers. I suspect Vittorio Emmanuele had changed the order from a one class to a multi class award since nearly all the monarchs at the time had copied the award system that Napoleon had created to award all those in the field not just the Generals. Carlo Alberto went further to extend the class system unfortunately I do not know either what class he added for I too do not have those statuets. It would be awesome to see the statutes from Vittorio Emmanuele & Carlo Alberto. Have you fotos of thes early examples or were they in a museum. Unfortunately examples from that period are seldom seen or they are and there all lumped together as mid 19th century examples since the design is the same. The examples you had saw should have been rather small in size from Carlo Alberto reign? Thanks Sincerely Yankee

An example 1830 peiod, 30mm & fluted ribbon ring

Dear Gentlemen Does anybody know what year the Saint Maurice went from being awarded in a smooth even enamel arm to a raised cicular edge arm. Thanks for any info provided.

Didn't know the site had a whole section on publications Enzo . That Maria Theresa exhibit catalog looks like a must. Luckily some of the publications can still be had Sincerely Brian

For all those who collect the Leopold order there is an excellent monograph on the 200th anniversary. The monograph is richly illustrated with many fine early examples (obverse & reverse) & the measurements too. They can be purchased directly from Mr Rochowanski in Vienna. Better to know exactly how the orginals should be before gambling on one at the next show. There is a 1969 Rothe sales catalog that has all the orders in gold. And if your wondering how you can tell the difference YOU CAN'T.