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And here is the little oddity... What do you think??

Here is the reverse of the nice Vaulted cross! Comments encouraged!

Hello Gents, Looky here! Postie has brought me a Nice unmarked Vaulted EK1 Just yummy! And with this lot i got this also...an unusual item.. A 1914 EKII painted with white enamel around the frame...its definately a three peice costruction with a core that rattles... and its not been painted recently...and it is not marked on either ring.... Has anyone ever seen anything like this?? I am tempted to clean it off...but i wanted to find ouot if there was a reason behind this being done...before i did this...just in case i am doing the wrong thing.... Pics to follow! Cheers Paul

Hi Chris, Nice family grouping! Lucky you! Its so nice to see these type of groupings...and as mentioned earlier...without a monetary value added to spoil it.. Thanks for showing us! Regards Paul

Marvellous Rick! thanks for sharing this story! Important to us! indeed! thanks again! Paul

Haynau, thats a very nice cross! and certainly an unusual maker mark too! I have a question in regards to the vaulting... I would imagine that shaping the core piece would be quite an undertaking, so i would think that there would be a supplier who did this and perhaps supplied many jewellers... Am i on the right track? or did each jeweller 'vault' their own flat cores from the manufacturer? Thanks for showing this unusual maker mark..one i have never seen before. Kind regards Paul

Darrell, Please explain...

Thanks Don! Yeah! was sure on the CCC, also the Luft RO ( bad rivets etc..)and the Blockade runner..( the Blockade has a wide pin and are usually maker marked) The Frank & Reif GAB hollow..(well sort of hollow).. i have done some research...and cannot find any that fit this description... So we can discount these...as fakes.. The J.F.S IAB, well i did find these with a massive search..so this is OK....( not many hollow ones around) The R.S GAB, is ok too after a big search.... with the differently placed pin... The R.S HSF is ok too...damn shame its missing pin and catch... There is a M.K.6A IAB which is ok too...for now... cannot see the MM clearly but is there... The Heer Flak is ok too...pity about the missing pin and catch tho... and the remaining unmarked IAB...well not to sure here...need it in hand...( weird how the catch is facing the other way...) So if we can assume these others are OK, what is a reasonable price for each? bearing in mind that some are missing catches etc... Many Thanks! Paul

Gents, Will no one comment???? All these people look and no-one can help...i find that hard to believe... Please i need someone who is more knowledgeable than I to make educated assumptions on these... Thanks! Paul

and the front of the Luft RO And has anyone ever seen a CCC without the square recess at the back??? this one i am sure is a Fake Please Gents...i need to know what these badges are worth Thanks!

and another back.. with some fronts

Hello Gents, These are on offer to me... Some pics of the backs, some are missing catches and the HSF is missing the pin too. Need to know if the JFS IAB is ok...and has anyone got examples to compare it against? thanks Also the R.S marked GAB...the other one is a Frank&Reif Also want opinions as to what possible maker the unmarked IAB is and the Blockade badge too... And IF they are Originals and not fakes! There is a Luft RO too...that needs to be checked too.... Sorry but these are the best pics i've got at the moment... the seller inherited this collection from his uncle...and has no idea about this sort of stuff... Comments encouraged! Thanking you in advance Kind regards Paul'

Yeah! i thought i recognised that ugly mug somewhere! ...

Paul, You can count me in for a copy! Regards Paul D

Hi Dan, Nice worn dagger! I have a question... These HJ daggers...the early ones had the Inscription on the blade and the makers mark too the second pattern had a RZM makers mark and no Inscription... Has ayone ever come across one with RZM marks on the stepped up top part of the blade AND the 'Blut en Ehre' ( dunno if i got that right) inscription? both ??? as one has showed up down my way...and i am always dubious about deviated from the norm, items.... Here is a pic...not a good one ...but you can see the RZM mark and just see the Inscription.... thanks Paul

Nice Group! Thanks for telling his story! Did you get these medals? Lucky you! Regards Paul

Simon, thanks ever so much for the link to the WAST records, i have made an enquiry already. Hauptmann Grosse survived the war and died in the 1960's.No further info on him i am afraid..like he eventual rank etc... will also try the Bundsarchiv my friend in Germany will look for me. Thanks again for your help! Kind regards Paul

Hi Simon, Ok so he is not on the rankliste....maybe he was killed in the war??? who knows... what do you mean by this.... Alternatively you could ask the wast Wast?? what is this please? Do you have any idea how i could find the Regiment lists??? i have a friend in Germany who could look for it, as he will be able to read the German and get access perhaps, to the archives..but he needs a starting point...a place or archives to search.. I know no-one said that it was bad...but i bought it on the basis that there was a story and a name etc..to research it...make it more real....and i am sorry if i sound dis-illushioned...but I AM! I desperately wanted this to add up...i do not usually buy this sort of thing...but when i spotted this...i just had to have it...because of the decorations, the unit number and the name...all led me to believe that i could trace this man...make some part of history come alive.... Oh well....be the last Blimmin tunic i buy!

and here is the reverse..

Hello Gents, this one just arrived this morning! A nice wee single Ludwig cross with a very faded ribbon...alongside a ribbon which is very faded itself but with little bits of the original blue showing to give an idea of the original hue. Enjoy! Regards Paul

Hello again Gents, Has no one got access to the lists to find out if he was even in the army at all...he must have been fighting in another unit before joining GR378 to get the CCC in silver... I asked the gent i got it off and he says thats the story the family gave him...they said that he had the CCC in silver and they still had it...and would not sell... He DID get the EKI as the seller bought it off the family when he got the tunic. Can we try another angle...and look up the regiment lists? and ascertain if we have the name correct...then find out more about him that way...then we can safely assume his decorations... there is more than meets the eye with this tunic....please gents, do not dismiss this as fantasy..there has to be a logical explanation for the CCC and there HAS to be a Hauptmann Fritz Grosse in the Wehrmacht! As for the 'a hauptmann who was a hauptmann in 36 and could not be a hauptmann at the end of the war...' lets assume this is an old tunic of his....as it is quite small...perhaps he got bigger with age...and needed a new tunic??? this tunic has got period repairs ( tailormade) to the elbows...maybe he wanted a new smart tunic...to go with a promotion....it would need new shoulder boards for a start...and this new tunic would then sport loops for a ribbon bar....and any other additions he may have been awarded... C'mon gents...think outside the square.... I did not outlay a goodly sum of money on this to get it poo poo'ed as a fantasy peice...there HAS to be a logical explanation behind the initial confusion.... I am determined to get to the bottom of this... Thanks for your help! Regards Paul

Ed, Good and very valid point. and please do not shut up...its good to discuss these things...if more people read this, maybe we can change a few....perhaps convert their thinking somewhat...at least make them aware of the possibilities of their actions.. I for one am not going to try to add the medals to line my own pockets...i will document this and advise the next custodian, of the additions made and why. But on the other hand...maybe just leaving it as it is...can be a good thing... But THEN theres the very real possibility that the next custodian will add the medals and work on the profiteering aspect of this ... a no win situation.... so the moral dilemma begins.....

Hi Tom, And a big welcome to the GMIC forum! A lovely pair...and with paperwork it is superb! Thanks for showing! and we look forward to your contributions to the forum! Kind regards Paul New Zealand.

Ed, Since these bars are not of the named type and there is no paperwork with this bar....i am of a disposition to find medals for it JUST for display purposes...not to twist History....also i think that the ribbons are nothing without the medals....( exception of ribbon bars, which are for that express purpose of being ribbon bars) But then again...with the plethora of choices..i may be Mis-representing the bar in its entirety...so i may not 'replace' the medals.... Hmmm, thanks gents...food for thought!

Hmmm, the dilemma continues.... Ed, i do see your point...but as Rick says..its nigh on impossible to Guarantee that the medals came with the bar....with these "hookies" Heiko, can you possibly post pics of the medals you mention? it will give me a start on what to look for...Thanks! But if you look closely...the hook for the green ribbon is a tad wider that the other two,,, which suggests to me that the medal could possibly be using a different suspension....this would give us a BIG clue to what the medal could possibly be......