Wild Card

Hi Durelle - Being an old Brunswick collector/aficionado I just had to say how really nice this little bar is. Congratulations! Best wishes, Wild Card

Hi WEM - Me again. In reviewing your thread, a minor point came to mind with regard to your original assumption that the order came in one class. I think that I should point out that there were also awards ?with brilliants?, Nimmergut cites a total of 91 such awards between 1742 and 1914 (20 between 1900 and 1914) plus 1 in 1932, I think to the, by then in exile, Empress. Nimmergut also mentions 5 non Christian awards at various dates between 1857 and 1898. With regard to Ludendorff, your information from Rick certainly makes sense and is most helpful - I was not aware of this, thanks Rick! Best wishes, Wild Card

In another thread, which deals with the Prussian Order of the Black Eagle, Rick Research refers to the thought, I think correctly. that the Black Eagle was often awarded to senior officers when, essentially, they had everything else. In 1901 the Merit Order of the Prussian Crown was founded. I have had conversations which speculate that this order was founded to fit between the Red and Black Eagles to alleviate this situation. Any thoughts? While we?re at it, does anyone know of any actual, or intended, connection between the Merit Order of the Prussian Crown and Prussian Merit Cross series which was founded in 1912? Thanks for any information. Wild Card

Hi WEM - See what you?ve started?! Your latest post had sent me back to dusty books and memory. With regard to awards of the order during the Great War, I noticed during my previous research, but failed to mention, that there were not any awards of the collar - curious. So that raises the question of awards of the badge and star. Other material in my collection reliably confirms an award of the Prussian Order of the Black Eagle to General of the Infantry Otto von Below on 15 November 1917. This information clarifies two points. First that there were awards of the badge and star during the time of the Great War; and second, that the award was not automatic with attainment of the rank of General of the Infantry as he had held this rank for at least two years prior to the award. Interestingly, he was awarded the grand cross to the Bavarian Military Max Joseph Order (in my opinion a much more prestigious and strictly military Imperial German order) exactly one week before. Were the Prussians embarrassed into the Black Eagle award? I would like to take this opportunity to reemphasize the demise of the non-military awards. Back to ?The Last Kaiser? - ?On the 22nd, there was a shower of Black Eagles. Giving one to Botticher had been calculated to annoy the former chancellor, and it had the desired effect... The Prince of Wales received his at the ceremony in the Weisse Sall. It provided an occasion for William to ask his advisors about the treaty?. Finally, from the same source, in 1900 Baronin von Spitzemberg is quoted from her Tagebuch - ?The Black Eagle was also becoming ?quite a common little beast?...?. Still nothing new on Ludendorff, except that I could swear that I recall a picture of him wearing a Black Eagle star. Hopefully we will find something. Best wishes, Wild Card

Hi WEM - Please allow me to begin by saying ?Thanks for the wakeup call?. When I was working on your inquiry, I was going on the assumption that we were talking about the collar of the order. While most of what I said above still holds true, let?s confirm. With regard to the ?von?, what I said does not hold; but the information on the Generals of the Infantry & Cavalry does. I must say that under Wilhelm II the order really does become something of a ?gentlemen?s club?. While most of the military luminaries were members, as time goes on the bulk of the remainder appear to be there out of position as opposed to accomplishment. ?The Last Kaiser? by Giles MacDonogh in it?s several references to the order does a fine job of tracking it?s demise. Remember that this order was given to royal princes at ridiculously early age; and, from MacDonogh (referring to Wilhelm?s father) ?Fritz?s first act as emperor was to pin the Black Eagle on his wife and...?; and the last of several items being ?His Majesty was very pleased (and gave) the now debased Black Eagle to the Commander...? Certainly, from this book, not all were ?von? going in; coming out I cannot tell. As for the ? the roll of the order?, what I have and what I was referring to is the roll for the collar of the order - Die Ketten des Preussischen Hohen Ordens vom Schwarzen Adler by Sauerwald and Schubersky. So what I should have said is that Ludendorff did not receive the collar of the order. Whether he got the badge and star or not is still, for you and me anyway, open to question. Finally, while the badge, star and collar of this order are among the most spectacular Imperial German awards (the Kleindekoration is one of my absolute favorites), if you are looking strictly for high end military awards, aside from the obvious (PLM) you might consider military Red Eagles and Crown Orders. Also, there are well over a dozen Imperial German states besides Prussia that had orders with military sections which might be worth consideration. Sorry about the confusion; I hope that I have clarified the situation - Wild Card

Hi - While a quick review of the Black Eagle rolls seems to indicate that the ?von? is an automatic, I am not finding so spelled out in the statutes as of 1881; and am inclined to think that by the time that one was considered for membership, the ?von? was already in place. A look at the 1914 Rank List shows a number of Generals of the Infantry/Cavalry (v. Lyncker, Gr. Dohna-Schlobitten, v. Jacobi...) who had not received the order. I am sure that more knowledgeable forum members can clarify this further. Wild Card

Hi Brian - The best I can find may or may not be helpful. I can go back only to 1837. The Prussian rank list for that year lists a Lt. Baron von Klingspor in the 3rd Curassier Regt. and a Lt. Baron von Klingspor in the 1st Leib Hussar Regt. The key here, of course is the spelling of the name - Klingsporn without the ?n?. Maybe there is no connection, On the other hand, in view of how many of these families were dedicated to the king?s service for generations, maybe there is. One other thing. In vol. I, on page 141, of his work on the PLM, Bill Hamelman lists Julius von Klingsporn (with an ?n? !!) ?Commander of the Goetzen Infantry Regiment? as the 63rd recipient under Friedrich Wilhelm II. Date of award is between 21 August and 1 September 1788. There it is, for what it?s worth. Good luck on your quest. Wild Card

Gentlemen - Thank you for your kind words of welcome. I have been very impressed by the knowledge exhibited by various members of this forum and look forward adding to the knowledge and understanding of Imperial German orders and decorations with other collectors. There is so much to be learned out there. Wild Card

Hi - J?rg Nimmergut presents a study of the Prussian Schwanen-Orden in vol. II (pages 958-963) of his ?magnum opus?. Essentially, as I make it out (my German is really not that good) this award was founded in 1440 and was bestowed until 1550; during which time there were 331 awards, including one collar. There was an unsuccessful attempt to resurrect the award in 1843; but, except for a possible single collar award that same year, nothing came of it. I hope that this is of some help and that some other member with access to this publication and a better working knowledge of German can provide you with more detailed information. Best wishes, Wild Card

This has haunted me since I first saw it a few days ago. If I may - this pair can beat a full house. Congratulations! Wild Card

David - That purple ribbon likely belongs to a pre-1915 Reuss ?House Order? award (w/swords?). That would tie in with ribbon #4. Just a guess. Wild Card

Hi Rick - I have an 1841-1866 Hannoverian Military Merit medal simply named ?Frie?. Actually, I think that these, like most Hannoverian medals, were usually named to the recipient; which is one of the pleasing aspects of ?collecting Hannover?. After waiting literally decades, I was recently fortunate enough to get an 1831-1841 silver (forget the gold) Civil Merit medal which is not named. All information I have indicates that this version was, uniquely among the Civil Merit medals, unnamed. If you have any information to the contrary, I would certainly appreciate hearing of it. Best wishes, Wild Card

This medal commemorates the 25th wedding jubilee of Ernst August, the Duke of Cumberland and Thyra, Princess of Denmark. Ernst August, named after his paternal grandfather, had the bad luck of being heir apparent to George V who picked the wrong side in the war of 1866; which led to the end of the Kingdom of Hannover. The good news is that his son, also named Ernst August, married the only daughter of Kaiser Wilhelm in 1913 and became the Duke of Brunswick, thereby returning a family which had spent almost fifty years in exile to their homeland. While not necessarily a valuable medal, this certainly is very rare - and well executed.