dpk

Hi Gordon, A great group of medals, unusual to have two PLSGC medals issued to the same man,and a very comprehensive personal career history of the recipient. Amazing how a medal group gains a life of its own when the recipient's career is known in such detail. You mwentioned the award of a bravery (medal?) for the clifftop rescue of the suicidal motorist. Do you know what that award was ( which medal was awarded) etc? And is that award part of the group? David

A very good reference for maker's and hallmarks is the website 'Silver Makers Marks- https://www.silvermakersmarks.co.uk/. I used this extensively on a recent book I wrote- 'A Guide: Medals & Awa5rds to British Firefighters'. The site covers all mainland mints in the UK, and is very comprehensive. Even a few which I couldn't identify were solved by sending a request and image to the website and they came up with details every time. Highly recommended. Dave Picton-King

Hi Gordon, Many thanks- I have this great book. Very good roll of all medals awarded. The author Simon Eyre is a most knowledgeable collector, and a nice fellow also. Highly recommend this book to CofL collectors, also Jim Kemp's book 'The Metropolitan Police- The Men and their Medals' which covers the Met medal rolls for the 1887 to 1911 Jubilee and Coronation medals of those years.

From my observations and some thinking, it seems to me that the rapid increases in prices for my area of collecting (medals to police, particularly UK provincial or local police medals as well as Commonwealth to police) started at the same time that world economic hardships became major issues in most western nations. Collectable and 'rare' items attract a premium in hard times- they are portable and easily turned back into cash if needed. Items such as rare stamps, coins, artworks, (and medals) all fit into the 'collecable investments' category and prices will rise as investors look for somewhere to put their cash, which if left as cash will go down in value. A medal investment is likely to hold or increase in value while other investors are looking for a relatively safe haven for their money. Certainly UK provincial police medals have really dissappeared from the market in the last 2 or so years. There was always a regular trickle of them in auctions, and on ebay. Not now! Very few and far between and when they appear the price is always way over the estimate- and also over the estimates of experienced collectors. A very good time to have lots in your collection, a very hard time if you want to acquire! My thoughts, for what they are worth...

Hi Megan, can also buy via Helion Book website (OMRS newly-appointed publishing house, at https://www.helion.co.uk/

Ah Gordon, You expected planning ahead from the Government? You are an optimist at heart....

On a slightly related topic, it was stated in the latest OMRS journal that Special Constables have now formally been made eligible for award of the Queen's Police Medal (as well as their usual LSGC medal). Presuambly for Gallantry or Distinguished Service- now one of those would be an addition to a collection!! This obviously really means the to be newly titled 'King's Police Medal' as although the decision has been announced for the QPM as it was, any recommendation for award will obviouly be under CIIIR.

The surprising fact seems to be that there are either no remaining stocks of the LSGC with the Queen's effigy, or a decision has been made to not use those remaining medals and to wait for the new version to be produced. It seems that even though virtually all of your service was under the reign of Queen Elizabeth II, your medal will not reflect that. I personally would want my medal to portray the Monarch I served under, rather then her heir, excellent King though he will surely be. I am sure others will disagree, and even worse some may see the brand new King's medal as a chance to make a good sale while they are still a novelty...

I have only ever seen one for sale, about 3 years ago, on ebay. It sold for £300. Medal Yearbook 2022 has it listed (299CC) but does not show a price for the full sized award, and has £15 for a miniature.

I recently acquired a SCLS medal and case, issued to a female officer. It was a good acquisition (I think) because it has a combination of unusual attributes- it is to a female officer, she had/has a very senior rank, and it was issued through the Birmingham Mint (in the period c1995-2007 when they had the contract). Hard to find this kind of SCLS!

Will be very interested top see which crown he adopts- probably won't be the George V, VI, EIIR crowns- possibly EVII, but maybe an older or new one?

I am a collector of police medals and awards issued by the Local Authorities in the UK- that is, the Counties, Borough, Cities and Town authorities of the UK who all issued medals to their police. These were particularly prevalent from the mid 19th Century to about 1951 but some still continue to this day. As there was so little current information available on these I wrote a book on them (mainly for my own information and reference) which was published in 2020. I am always on the lookout for examples of these fascinating and sometimes rare medals to acquire, so anyone who has something of interest please get in touch!! I am at dpk@iinet.net.au so happy to hear from you.

Many thanks- so not a 'fake' but a souvenir. The question re 'fakes' still remains, occasionally someone on a forum will advise of a suspicious item, even a deliberately doctored or fake but thereseems to be little effort by the collector groups to make such info available to members. I suppose 'caveat emptor' applies- buyer beware and best of luck...

Is there a reliable source of information on known fakes in the militaria/police collectables world? I saw a presentation during the recent OMRS virtual conference about the large number of fake George Cross and Air Force Cross medals made by one prolific faker, now in prison. He knocked out scores of these, all very good copies which fooled a lot of people. Now hearing about the CofL '999' helmet plates made for the collector market makes me wonder how many other fake items are out there being bought and sold either knowingly or perhaps unwittingly. It would be great to have a permanent topic in groups like GMIC, BMF, OMRS etc to keep us informed.

The idea of additional bars to Police Loing Service medals is widely accepted, and I find it difficult to understand the (up until now) reluctance of the UK authorities to institute them. That said, my own force, the Western Australia Police, may have taken the concept a little too far! Below is the text of details I sent to Token Publishing for inclusion in the Medal Yearbook (since published) which illustrates the elaborate lengths which the State Government of Western Australia has gone to in recognising periods of Police long service:

For info, Western Australia Police Force duty armband. It was not in use when I joined in 1973, also not sure when introduced but almost certainly in use by 1900 according to images of coppers of that era.

Nice group and very unusual to acquire Police LSGC to PNG police. Not often seen out there!

Lovely medal, but with so many to be issued and the same numbers or more as earlier jubilee issues, it must be the newness and novelty which is causing the current price. Most earlier jubilees now sell for well less than £100 and I suspect in a year or two these will be the just the same.

This is a wonderful example of the history which takes a nice but quite common medal, and exposes the life, times and nature of the recipient. A short statement (the medal) becomes a novel (the man). Lovely.

Thank you Michael! No sooner does one door close, than another slams in your face! I will go back to the seller and urge him to find the alleged printed copy of the Gazette notice, although how someone found it to print it it has me beat. Best regards David

Hi Michael and QSAMike, Interesting take on the award date- and I wasn't aware of Burke's Handbook. If it was awarded in the several years after the hallmark date of 1919 then that book may provide another source of information. Is it available anywhere so I could search it, or could I impose on you to search beyond 1919 if you have access to it and it is not too much to ask? David

Thank you all, for your assistance so far. The medal pair are the MBE, unnamed as issued but with a hallmark of 1919. The SC LS medal is named to George A. Crouch but unfortunately I don't know which force he was with. Being a KGV crowned head with Great War bar, the medal was likely issued in 1919 (when it first appeared) or in the early 1920's. A name change is possible but not sure how to check that out. As to age of SC enlistments during WW1, I an unsure if any strict rules applied. I know of SC's in WW1 and later who were well into their 40's and 50's when they joined as well as young men in their 20's etc so the date of birth possibilities could be from about 1895 back to about 1865. I have searched Ancestry and Find My past etc and have found a number of George Crouch entries but nothing in their data identifies them as MBE or as Special Constable. Even less George A. Crouch entries, and same result. It's a good problem to have, when I wake up at night- it gives me something to think about and better than counting sheep!! David

Thank you, Nightbreak, I will give that a try. I don't know what the 'A." stands for- I have found a few George Crouch entries in Ancestry etc, and even a few George A, possibly Arthur but none seem to be the right age for 1919 era issue of these medals. I was hoping to go direct to the London Gazette entry for the MBE but so far no luck. I'll let you know! Regards Dave

Recently acquired a nice MBE-Special Constabulary Long Service Medal pair and trying to locate the London Gazette entry for the MBE without any success. MBE is ist Issue Civil award, has silver hallmark for 1919, unnamed as issued and the SCLS is a KGV crowned head with Great War bar, named to George A. Crouch. No matter how hard I try I cannot get Londone Gazette website search to bring the MBE award record up. I think it must be me because I then tried to find the award of a KPM I have and also failed to find any record of it, even though I have a copy of the KPM London Gazette entry so I know it is there!! Looking for any advice, help etc. Much appreciated- please PM me to dpk@iinet.net.au as I will see it quicker.

Thank you Dave. That certainly seems to be a very credible reference, corroborated by your example. It is very helpful, and certainly opens up this very interesting area of Special Constabulary awards. I will be keeping a keen eye out for similar examples- I would love to add one to my collection. Best regar4ds David