RedNoseScout

Sorry GDC 26. I’m still feeling my way around this forum but I wish to respond to your points and appreciate your comments: The book has a life of its own and has become my mistress - now turning into 11 volumes on Vintage Aviation Memorabilia. I couldn’t do the work justice on German Aviation alone given the significance of the other Central Powers in the war effort and the quality material I was able to put together for this project - as u can see from the above. It is not going to be like any of the existing textbooks out there. The first volume is exclusively on Austro Hungarian aviation and is nearing completion. I fell in love with that theater of the war and the bravery and courage of the pilots in air crew and most importantly their stories. I also appreciate the feedback that I get from everyone on the site as I am starting to use it more because sometimes I do make mistakes! As I am about to admit. ? i am getting on average of less than 5 hours sleep while still working full time. I meant to type in Leopold Urban but being a dyslexic I typed Otto bc I am working on another story for the series and made a mistake - sorry! I would edit and correct the name of the site allowed me to. Maybe u can help me on how to do that ? Leopold Urban was w Flks 7, 16, 17, and 53. His badge is stunningly beautiful - in my opinion it ranks up there w Godet’s AH pilot badges. Those Godet AH Pilot badges will be published in the first volume too including one never published before - the White Swan - the finest known surviving combat-worn AH Godet sample. The volumes will be in English and German. As for caution GD, I get ur concerns, but the K.u.K. Pilots were some of the best and the book will include Gordon Brumowski’s case engraved pilot badge (I am in touch w his delightful grandchildren) and Oskar Fekete’s (Flik 58 Commander) csse engraved pilot badge too. If u like AH hat pins, it will include samples not included in Christian Reiterer’s wonderful work. He’s been helpful to me too in my research. These volumes r not about quantity but quality and nothing gets published unless authenticated and real. Fortunately, I have a fabulous network across the planet that I am working with and hope to expand it here. These volumes are not just about badges but uniforms, helmets, hats, paper, real aircraft canvass (including items from James Baldwin’s and Norm Flayderman’s collections) propellers, original bombs, unit banners, autographs, oil paintings, posters, pilot licenses, commander and pilot group sets, bronze sculptures, medallions, furniture, advertisements, photo albums, including unpublished K.u.K and Zeppelin photo albums. The list is almost endless. One volume will be dedicated to CP aviation stickpins alone for the folks who r really into the coolest and rarest stickpins. ? But it’s not just about the eye candy but the research that brings their amazing stories back to life - with many new discoveries- add in price trends over the last 20 years for the collector and investors. It’s all strictly aviation related. Sorry for writing so much but I can see this thread has increased in attention which is good - I really like what GJI displayed! Great job. So GD, I’m looking forward to promoting the relationship between and among us. Thank u all for ur comments.

that is correct on both points. Thank u.

Yes - you made a very good point - very few observers or air gunners ever became national figures unless and until they became ace pilots. Otto Urban (who survived the war) was a highly praised observer and after 3 years of service (I compare him to Georg Hans Horn) became a pilot on April 30, 1918. I identified (with help) his silver AH pilot badge. It is arguably the most beautiful pilot badge of the war. Two of the forensic keys (there are more) to proving that this was combat-worn is first studying the soldered brass hooks (karabinerhafteln) - they are classic time-period and paying careful attention to the weakly struck Zimbler maker mark. The 1950s Zimbler badges (sold mostly to NATO pilots) are distinctly different and come with thin pins that would never have survived the twist and turns of combat. Unfortunately many are sold as original war badges today but these reproductions are worth far less compared to their original war-time counterparts which are extremely hard to find. Fakers fool with fantasies, and auction houses and some badge reference materials mistakenly misidentified them for original AH pilot and aircrew badges!!

How do u read this Cryllic? Anton Sergeyvevich Popov? I could not find him in Robert Veinfurter we’ll-researched book. Not surprised. Many records were destroyed in the WW2 bombings. According to my Russian speaking friends the inscription is clearly in dedication mode - TO An. Serg, Popov in 1908. The year. The g after 1908 indicates year. In Russian - this "TO" is in the form of suffix "U" - Popovu and is Nominativ is POPOV, Dativ (To Popov) is PopovU. Thr badge is definitely a legit beautiful 1917 AH Observer badge. The weak back pin was replaced w hooks. This badge was clearly worn in combat. The script is hand-done not by machine. My Bulgarian jeweler examined and confirmed. i have seen hundreds of original engraved scripts. The date 1908 is what is throwing me off. could it be an anniversary date? Or was engraved after the war for sentimental reasons and someone got it wrong? This came out of a collection put together 60 years ago! I know of Austrians who flew for the Russian Air Service and it makes sense that Russian-speaking people could have flown for the AH Empire since parts of the empire spoke Russian, i.e. like the Western part of today’s Ukraine. If any one knows anything about this observer or wants to take a shot at the name below - feel free. The date (if it is a date) is the only thing I still can’t explain. By the way I am very good at decipher unknown engravings on German and AH aviation badges and silver. I may post more of my findings of my confirmed discoveries. To date I have solved 26 unknown names. Engravings are like messages in a bottle to the future. If real. At first I thought the g was an s and maybe was an aerial ground assault unit reference. I have no doubt this is authentic aviation heirloom. But this one mystery remains unless I am misinterpreting this beautiful Cyrllic script. A dear friend with 45+ years experience wrote me: most engraved items are repros but some original EK's or aviation badges are fake engraved by well known aces to double the price but most engravings are poor quality, there are still no silver smiths left, who could engrave the original style of the old german letters by hand like then.

Another treat. The Collar Tab or Kragenspiegel - as worn by Josef Kiss the 5th highest scoring Austrian Hungarian ace of the WW1 - reveals the ballon with a bullion-threaded basket indicated this soldier was in the LFT or Luftíahrtuppen - literally an air trooper in the Austrian Hungarian Army Air Service. The three gold stars show the rank of a Stabsfeldweber (StFw or SF; literally  'Staff field usher') which was the second highest non-commissioned officer or NCO In the Army Air Service. They were formally addressed as Herr Stabsfeldwebel. This highly attractive silver-silk lined embroidery was adopted in 1914. The gold stars of the junior officer consisted of relief metal (commonly referred to as bullion) was embroidered from metallic fiber and is extremely beautiful. This is the right collar insignia color scheme and indicates a volunteer. If put under a ultra violet light, there should be no glow - in order words it is dark. Pilot collar tabs are extremely rare. I am aware of less than a dozen complete collar K.u.K. pilot tab sets in the world. They are usually sold privately when they come onto the market. This will also be further detailed in Volume One with his complete story and record. I hope u enjoyed this information.

I thought u might enjoy Otto Urban’s pilot badge awarded on April 30, 1918. Silver. Engraved. He was an outstanding observer since 1915. One of the best. He survived the war. I am currently finishing volume one of my series on Vintage Aviation Memorabilia of the Austro-Hungarian Emoire. Hope u enjoy. The only AH badges as beautiful are the three known Godet pilot badges and two known Rothe & Neff pilot badges.

It is with great pleasure to announce that Alex Notopol was absolutely correct and at least 7 people w considerable experience (“the experts”) got it totally wrong. Although I believe it was an honest mistake by Helmut from many years ago, I note that in 2005, the landscape on knowledge was far different, i.e., for example, consensus on Zeppelin Badges was notably different than it is today. The Zeppelin Super Crown was considered fake and Junckers Zeppelins were thought to be real. Now it is the exact opposite. I am not defending the experts. I'm pretty sure he and Carsten run things by each other, and though opinions are far different today, Carsten may have actually given the thumbs up on the patches in 2005! it’s proves we must teach ourselves as much as possible. It’s going back in the chain of title over 15 plus years and Helmut has agreed to resolve the matter amicably. So a few good things r happening out of this! This is what makes this forum wonderful. It educates. It encourages. I would like to add that Alex and I have been having a highly productive series of emails. His knowledge is incredible. It’s all in the details and he loves the history that goes into his research! As Alex rightly points out - the home work must be done before publishing! Lastly Alex shared something (for those interested in squadron sleeve patches) which comes out of I believe an old publication. Take a look for comparison. Alex also sent this link which is choked with photographs on time-period epaulets, insignia and unit patches. Check it out!ttp: //firstwartechnik.free.fr/Dinsignes.html Hope everyone finds this useful!!!! Thank u Alex for the difference u make and ur kindness in allowing me to post these sketches.

About Opinions First thank u for ur comments. Opinions r gladly welcomed. I take none of it personally. If Alex is right then truth will out and he has done another good service for us. I am not new a new expert or mean to rub anyone the wrong way bc this is an open forum for ideas. This chain has seen more activity in a few days then in a long time. This I think Akex would agree is good! This is a process of learning and ultimately consensus. It is an evolving field as the knowledge becomes more known. Hence this forum - one of many. Because it’s interesting. Because we all stand to learn and understand and not buy mistakes - for those who r collectors About truth I find Helmut to be a gentleman in his dealings. All dealer occasionally buy mistakes, ie the Junckers Naval Air Gunner w only 2 rivets! Panda will tell u all day long what he thinks is fake on any site if u ask Including well recognized dealers and auctions. That doesn’t mean there are not great pieces and good opportunities - though I rarely buy from retail dealers. The key is not to buy mistakes. And if u gentlemen r right that these two squadron sleeve patches r fakes well that’s okay. It’s part of the territory bc u r saying the squadron units do not exist. Seems easy. A further reply will be made. There are other experts highly interested in this debate. I stand for the truth. Let it will out. It’s never personal what the evidence reveals about a piece And Vince there’s also nothing out of left field in ur silence (or anyone’s) on the naval badges I posted. That speaks volumes bc they r textbook. Its all good though. I totally agree w u that this is a field fraught w a lot of misinformation. And I look forward to ur friendship in bringing clarity and truth and having fun in the process.

Bullion update on Gr. Kampala-Flieg 83 Alex. I bought this unit sleeve patch from a long-time collector who actually bought this many many years from Helmut Weitze - a big Navy enthusiast! GR Kamala Flieg 83 was a front line bomber squadron. My German is very bad but here are more details in German if u want to translate what Helmut wrote. Th F 221 squadron sleeve patch above another former Helmut piece from his personal collection that he sold to the same collector. The F stands for Fortress (Feststungsflieger). F 221 squadron is well documented in OTF literature. Most of the time if u can find any German squadron sleeve patches, they r soiled, moth eaten, and worn and faded. 20 years ago - if u could find one in this condition - it would have sold for well under 500e. Today’s retail for a storied squadron patch in mint condition easily has tripled. I wouldn’t be surprised if Helmut would put ask 1500e to 2000e bc of its quality and bc it’s so rare, and Bavarian unit patches and cloth bullion have become the darling of several major aviation cloth collectors who r all looking for the same thing. My point is there are a lot cool and really rare German aviation pieces that are still out there at affordable prices.

The book will not be the standard show and tell - the major textbooks need updating to adjust for new info that this book will have. Hint: don’t buy a Tyoe 2 Front w a Type 1 Rayback Reverse Poellath Bavarian Observer. They r all fake! Just like all Junckers Zeppelins badges - but some of u knew about the Junckers. I give Panda credit for enthusiastically updating his work but something sorely is needed on investment collecting in high-end WW1 German aviation. It will give it to u straight on how to invest even if u don’t have a lot of money and more importantly how not to buy mistakes.

Zeppelin Commander Frey Group Set Sorry not the best quality bc pixil size allowed here but this is what a real Zeppelin Commander Group Set looks like. The badge is an extremely rare silver-plated nickel Schott it has a nice weight to it A set like this has tripled in value in the last 5 years. There r only six zeppelin group sets that remain in private hands or that have not been broken up or acquired the museums.

Hey Claudius. What do u know of the L19 sinking? I see u like WW1 German Tsiango. Do u collection uniforms? Man-cave displays w all original minty badges? How about an airman’s near mint silk-cloth naval officer’s summer tunic w officers hat belt epaulettes pants and all buttons and best part custom-made by Tsiango tailors w provenance? I’ll have to learn how to start a new thread and do private emails. My first time posting was today. I see u like group sets. How many zeppelin commander r out there - 6 not in museums? Super rarified air. Carsten has one maybe 2. He’s definitely has at least one PLM group set. I avoided 2 major mistakes because of his help. If u like group sets have u heard of Zep Commanders Frey, or Dietrich - who also headed the Ju bomber program in WW2? Do u collect plm group sets? Those I am told r at the top food chain. I appreciate ur interest and will figure out how to start a new thread here.

Akex. Have u seen Carsten’s OTF article on the unit patches? Send me ur email and I will scan a copy over to you. He specifically addresses that unit patch in some detail. Also here is the reverse on the Meybauer zeppelins. Also an Army time period batallón banner for comparison w only known surviving Zeppelin banner. Hope u find this interesting and helpful. The funeral RIFF ribbon below was from Andreas Busch (L19) funeral service. The hand-colored lantern slide show the sinking of the L19 in Feb 1916. My book will feature dozens of original L19 objects including the rarest of all known Zeppelin paper in the world. Note the separation between crown and wreath. First thing i look for on the reverse. Each is a text book sample. The latest naval Meybauer sample is not yet in any of the existing text books. It was sleeping for decades in a German collection. Only 2 known original Meybauer Naval badges have sold in the last ten years. One was private sale; the other, private auction. Historically a zeppelin badge comes up for sale maybe once every five years. The number of original surviving zeppelins badge is quite small. Only 14 original Godet. Zeppelin badges r known of all sizes, including Commander’s Dietrich prizen cuff link below right of the navsl Meybauer in the 4th pix. Carsten has the largest zeppelin badge collection in the world. It’s 13 or 14 I think. His is stunning. Mine r arguably the finest known samples. commander Frey owned the bottom right a Schott silver nickel army zeppelin. See Carsten p 572 for a close example. Does anyone here collect naval commander group sets? That’s a whole other beast for a long thread if anyone is interested.

Naval Godets r the most beautiful of all the Naval badges. There r only 4 known in the world. Carsten owns one. I am extremely fortunate to have three. These came from a string of high-end collectors that I can trace back to Germany 40 years ago. The text books need to be updated w new information and trends and other data regarding the Godet brand. The naval is silver w brass gilding is beyond beautiful. The prizen land is mint. The war-merit full-size is the best known war-worn naval land pilot badge extant. The asterisk mark is on other known Godet badge I have. The Godet rayback has a very well known style and again is consistent w the Naval Godets below. I will get u better pixs. Thanks Harry for posting page 85. I agree the hinge is not correct but I have a mint Meybauer observer prizen w a replaced pin if u want to see it. One must be diligent in understanding what is really being looked at given 99 percent of high-end aviation badges r forgeries. I appreciate any comments good bad or a questions. Godets r not only the rarest naval badges out there, they r stunningly beautiful.

Alex. I am not being fair with u because u need more detail pictures and u have nothing to compare this against. Bullion collectors go nuts on stuff this like. I am attaching a post-war early Weimar (1919 - 1921) silk-screen banner made on sheepskin (joking) and clearly lacks all the bullion beauty that disappeared w war shortages and other needs and changes in technology. I am also enclosing bullion samples. Some were published last month in an OTF article by Carsten Baldes. He concurred this Zeppelin Banner was early war. First one he had ever seen. WW2 TR banners are going 20 to 30 grand I heard. I haven’t had these appraised but my TR DZR is another sweetie.... added for comparison w the Weimar zeppelin banner. Of course maybe we should just stay w stay w the tried and true.... and talk about Naval Zeppelins!!! My favorite badges next to Air Gunners.

I sent to Panda but I dn have the right pixel to submit and include in his book. I just bought a Fuji XT30 and will upgrade my pictures as soon as I master the new camera. He said it is a variation on the same one u mentioned. He liked it a lot. This came from a private collection of the highest pedigree. If u like pedigree, I will be posting early naval canvass from James Baldwin’s personal collection. Meanwhile.... here is a tease if u love naval badges....

Naval German Badges the Meybauer Commemorative is stamped somewhat weakly but identical logo under the loop w Panda’s copy. It has two rivets suggesting a high-end repair. The solder is time period. It is a high-grade repair - something a faker would never spend time repeating. The front is an exact match w textbook examples. See Pandis Central Powers Revised (2020) page 85 . Comments? Anybody up for a conversation on Naval Godets Badges?

Alex. This will be my first post. If I go anywhere in this field, u and the others (Harry, John, Ferg, et al) will loom large in my efforts. I am putting together a book on my collection. It is strictly WW1 German Aviation ?. Here’s one item I’m sure u among the few have ever seen. It it a hand-made 1914 Bullion sewn cloth and silk Zeppellin Battallion Standard. It is all original. It has all the details. This came ftom a 1960s German collection w 2 other original Zeppelin Banners. Will post additional pictures of the details. Looking for photographs or information on this particular unit or comments on this lovely piece. Danka all. Erik

Alex. This will be my first post. If I go anywhere in this field, u and the others (Harry, John, Ferg, et al) will loom large in my efforts. I am putting together a book on my collection. It is strictly WW1 German Aviation ?. Here’s one item I’m sure u among the few have ever seen. It it a hand-made 1914 Bullion sewn cloth and silk Zeppellin Battallion Standard. It is all original. It has all the details. This came ftom a 1960s German collection w 2 other original Zeppelin Banners. Will post additional pictures of the details. Looking for photographs or information on this particular unit or comments on this lovely piece. Danka all. Erik