Komtur

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Postcard size! Notice the pic on the ciggar box

some details

Names on the back: von rechts nach links: Kriegsgerichtssekret?r Br?ker (aus M?nster) Rittmeister v. Dalwigk Oberstl. K?hler Oberl. Simon Stabsarzt Dr. Grunert Stehend v. links nach rechts: Kriegsgerichtsrat Albrecht Oberl. von Tresckkow Oberl. Rusiel (....Etapp. Kommand...?) Leut. von Secken Ordonanz rechts: Hellwig links: Fehlisch

Again postcard size picture with extremly high resolution:

Orden-Militaria-Magazin 75, Dezember 1996 Dr. Peter Sauerwald Serie: Kopien f?r Sammlerzwecke .... des Roten Adler-Ordens der 4. Klasse (left original / right copy) The copy is casted and of poor quality. The eagle is related to a Chicken Tandoori.

On the next pic you can see, what this bar looks like before. This picture shows a part of the collection, where the bar above comes from. I know that also here the KO4 with the red cross looks like manipulated. But someone exchange this cross to put on his place a copy of a AEZ with a red cross before I bought the bar. BUT IT WAS MY FAULT! I DID NOT EXAMINED THE BAR BEFORE BUYING! Now I learned my lesson Best regards, Komtur.

I hope it is a kind of consolation for you, this happens not only to you. It is unbelievable, what they do to these historic items . I?ll show you, what I bought about a year ago by a well known auction house from south Germany:

I know him and I?m afraid he knows

Amazing, he looks quite young for that mass of decorations! Thanks for showing, Komtur.

Normally the KO4 should be the first order someone got in old Prussia, and after some years of service the REO4 after the KO4. The REO4 looks like the type awarded up to the year 1854 (lilac eagle), the KO4 is the type awarded from 1867... Is there a prize in your quiz Regards, Komtur.

a cross from K?nker auction with damage on the back...

Thanks! As I remember, it is told, the red cross of the original awarded items should be of gold, is it? With regards, Komtur.

Hm, "only" 1787 awarded KO4 with the red cross (1872-1874). So it may be not a very, very long time, but a very long time May be Geiles Register of the rare orders in the Ordensalmanach 1904/5 is of any use (I don?t have it, so I do not know, if the KO4 with the red cross is rare enough to be mentioned) Best regards, Komtur.

Me too ! Can we also see a close up of the red cross on the KO4 please? Thanks, Komtur.

... besides his shiny boots may be his Henry the Lion and his entry in the Rangliste 1904 of interest:

Generalmajor Paul Hoeckner

Thank you both for these additional informations, especially Rick for searching the SEHO rolls The SEHO3b has a golden center, while the SEHO3bX has a silver guilded one. That could be a hint, that the first one is a pre war or an early war decoration. On the other hand it can be a reawarded order in the late war years after returned to the order commission. @webr55 I had this promotion date before, but I can?t remember the source. Where is that from? Best regards, Komtur.

not much additional information, but here is the back:

Some month ago I?ve got this wonderful bar. To my great pleasure Daniel suggest as its owner: Dr. Hermann Kanter Oberarzt IR 153 (8. Th?ringisches) Thanks to Ricks/Daniels lists: SEHO3bX 24.12.1914 Sh HSAE "14" 31.8.1916 Besides Kanter, there are two other persons with this combination: Lt. d. R. Book and Lt. d. R. Syre. Because of the Red Cross Medal 3rd class Kanter is the most likely, but this is a supposition. Unfortunately in the 1914 Rangliste there are no decorations mentioned for Kanter (or Syre; Book is not in this list). Any idea for a source to find out, if he (or Book or Syre) got a SEHO3b? May be a regimental history of the IR 153? Best regards, Komtur.

The here showed sources never mentioned any PKO Best regards, Komtur.

Many Thanks Rick, for the additional information and the portrait. I would appreciate, if you could change the title of this thread. The abbreviation PC in the Stammliste des Marine-Sanit?tskorps seems to mean the Prussian Centenar Medal. So the China Medal is missing in this Stammliste, but it is mentioned in the Ordens-Almanach and it make sense because of B?ses duty in China. Again we see, that even with the exactness of Prussian civil servants some little mistakes can happen. Best regards, Komtur.

Ordensalmanach 1908/9 Marinestammliste 1922 Marine-Ehrenrangliste