Veteran

Hello Chris It was not quite so cut-and-dry. The French felt the same way about men (and women) who had been Killed in action as the British did. They reacted differently. Il was felt that when someone had given his/her life for the Country he/she deserved the highest level of recognition. This was the Médaille militaire for all ranks except commissioned officers. But the Médaille militaire was also very much like the MSM and given for long and distinguished services. This was why the Croix de guerre was always added. Commissionned officiers received the Legion d'honneur since they were not eligible for the Médaille militaire + Croix de guerre for the same reasons. This special recognition had to be requested by the next-of-kin and they were set apart from the other awards. A citation was issued mentioning the dates and places where the men had fallen, so justifying the Croix de guerre. So it was not all that automatic. Regards Veteran

This medal certainly looks like a period piece, not necessarily a Paris Mint stricking. I have the very same. True connoisseurs will tell you more. There are also a number of home-made Indochineese medals; veterans of that conflict are very avid collectors of all varieties. Hope you get more detailed information from other members. Best regards Veteran

Dolfek For over 150 years French military campaign medals have been manufactured by the French Mint (Administration des Monnaies et Médailles) in order to offer official medals for sale. The Mint has an obligation to have them in stock as a public service, simply because the rule is that if you are entitled to a medal or a decoration you buy one if you want to wear it (or your friends or your commanding officer will buy one for you to be presented). The general idea being that well made badges at reasonnable prices should be available to men who earned the awards as long as they live. You can buy a 1939-1945 croix de guerre to-day at the Mint for about 18 Euro and they should keep them available certainly until 2030. If they run out of stock in the meantime, they will produce new ones which might be recognisable as such. No trouble. Only a very small number of awards are truly Gorvenment issue and unavailable for purchase. Therefore by "straightforward period badge" I state a current fact. This medal you have may have been struck and sold in 1885 or ten or twenty years later. It is recognisable as one of the early (i.e. before 1910 probably) strickings. Later strickings can be recognised by various caracteristics, one of them being the ball shaped attachment for the suspension ring. Private manufacturers have also struck and sold, quite legally, these campaign medals and others. Some of the commercial firms have their own hallmarks which allow collectors to tell. The Tonkin medal you show is the nicer early type most advanced collectors would rather have. Probably 100 years old or more. But Tonkin medals have been officially produced by the Mint until late in the 1950s.... Those are the ball shaped ring attachment ones I hope I have clearly answered your question. Best regards Veteran

This looks like a very straighforward period Tonkin medal for the Army. The ribbon might also be period, it certainly is not a very modern one. The price is not this year's bargain but it is quite fair. These medals come up on the french eBay very regularly. Hope this helps Veteran

Hello Lorenzo Very nice looking display you have there. Congratulations. The MAROC commemorative medal was awarded with one or several of four bars : CASABLANCA - OUDJA - HAUT-GUIR - MAROC according to the areas where the men had been employed I was mistaken about your SYRIE-CILICIE medal. A bronze LEVANT clasp was tardily officially authorised in 1934 and again in 1939 for men who had garrisoned Zelaf and Saba-Biar in 1933 as well as for those who had been involved in the police operations in the Kurd-Dagh between March 1939 and June 1939. Two rather confidential instances. This appeared when I looked up the medal in the official orders. But it also true that before 1933, some of the men who had earned the medal wore a LEVANT clasp wich was not truly official. So your medal with the clasp may very well be completly genuine. I am happy you did not sell it in dispair... Best regards Veteran

Hi there Chris Lots of fun your story. Trust the Legion to obey orders..... in such a way things really work out, despite official nonsense. Thanks for sharing. Amitiés légionnaires Veteran

Hello Noor Great Dane has exactly identified this badge. It is a Knight's cross of the french Military Order of Sant-Louis. Although it has been knocked around, it is a very valuable first type cross as issued in the times of Louis XIV who founded the order. A very rare 1693-1715 period badge ! Best regards Veteran

Dear Avsar Ibar Thank you ever so much fot these clear explanations. The fact that swords might have been later additions to the 2nd class set nerver occured to me. The badges have the tougra on the reverse. Would a picture of that help date the set ? With a blow-up of the gold lettering Thank you again for your invaluable comments Regards Veteran P.S. I attended an international professional congress in Istanbul last June and I was greatly impressed. This was my first visit to your Country. Congratulations.

next ...... This marking is found on the inside of the lid, which is cusioned with white satin. I hope this picture will be sufficiently clear: Would such a set have been available for award to a Turkish officer or would it have been restricted to allies ? Thank you for your comments. Every bit of information will be gratefully received. Sincerely Veteran

Hello Avsar Ibar I am very impressed with your knowledge of this Order. And I wonder if you would care to comment on this ser of 2nd class with swords I have had for a long time now. From what I have been told, this type of award with swords was a late addition to the order, possibly linking to WW1 alliance with the Central Powers whose military personnel were used to receiving "military divisions" of their respective orders. Could you confirm that, or could this "with sabers" award have antidated WW1 ? This set has the Turkish Mint marks on the reverses of each badge and comes in an original box which also has marking, which I will show in my next message, this first picture having saturated this post.

Jeff The obverse of the medal you show belongs to the very late 1870/71 commemorative medal established in 1909. The reverse should say "Aux defenseurs de la Patrie". The appropriate ribbon was green with black stripes. An "ENGAGE VOLONTAIRE" clasp was allowed on the ribbon. The ribbon on your medal is for the unofficial Engagé volontaire medal available from various private firms very soon afer WW1 and bought by veterans who had volunteered during the war. It could be bought by anyone who cared to and was never officially allowed for wear on the uniform. The proper thing to do was to wear an ENGAGE VOLONTAIRE clasp on the ribbon of the 1914-1918 commemerative medal. A Croix du Combattant was created in the 30s. The only official award for war-volonteers is the Croix du Combattant volontaire created a few years later, which is considered to be an important decoration ranking immediately after the Croix de guerre. It was restricted to men who qualified both for the Croix du Combattant and had volunteered. Hope this helps Veteran

Hello all This is a very interesting post. Exceptionnal awards of the National Defense Medal have gradually become a necessity, as an adjunct to the Cross of Military Valour which is rather given for actions in combat. Jean-Paul : the word "quotas" may be misleading. I would rather think the true french wotd is "citation" which can, indeed mean a "quote" as in a written text when an extract of an other text is mentioned. When it comes to awards, the french word "citation" means a "mention" such as the british "mention in despaches" In other words, a special mention of a man/woman's conduct has to be made in order to justify the award. Originally, the Croix de guerre and the Croix de la Valeur militaire were given to show that a "citation" had been given. They still are always so awarded. I hope I made this point clear. There are no "quotas" for exceptionnal award, but always a "citation". Which indeed makes each of them special. Best regards Veteran.

This again is excellent news; An immediate Gold National Defense medal is a high award in its own right. I hope these men wear their ribbons proudly, I am sure they deserved them. Best regards Veteran

Wonderful coverage of the event. Thank you JL. It reminds me of the time we fought alongside US troups (3rd Infantry Div.) when we were lent to the 7th Army Group as armoured support to them during the Colmar gap battle (Jan/Feb 1945). Good soldiers can always tell other good soldiers. I am glad these men received proper recognition and that they were allowed to accept the French awards, Best regards Veteran

This is indeed quite a piece of news. The citations would be interesting to know, but Special Forces are usually secretive about them. I don't know how it works for National Guardsmen. Some of those men wear an incredible number of award-ribbons.... Regards to all Veteran

Thanks, Bill. This is a very useful website. Helps a lot. Regards Veteran

Hello Bob A regulation french "Etat de services" booklet is maintained by HQ of the unit or Service the personnel belongs to. This can be a Regiment, or a ship or an air-base or squadron depending which Service he/she belongs to. This holds for NCOs & rankers. Page 1 is name, parents, home adress, current employment or profession, description of physical aspect. Page 2 gives basic military information : where and when drafted/called up/volunteered. Pages 3/4/etc describe military carreer, in detail. This is maintained by successive units as the man's carreer goes. Last page mentions awards and decorations Is that the information you wanted ? Best regards Veteran

Hello Monkey Don't be disappointed by the lack of answers to your post. These are not, as you certainly expect to be told, awards of any kind. They are small souvenir gadgets. The Napoleon I one sided "medal" may well be one of the many small things sold in Corsica in memory of their favorite son.... among other things. The other item with portraits of both Napoleon & Josephine is probably something similar, possibly a little older. The portrait of Josephine is quite attractive. This is the best I can offer. Veteran

Hello Monkey Don't be disappointed by the lack of answers to your post. These are not, as you certainly expect to be told, awards of any kind. They are small souvenir gadgets. The Napoleon I one sided "medal" may well be one of the many small things sold in Corsica in memory of their favorite son.... among other things. The other item with portraits of both Napoleon & Josephine is probably something similar, possibly a little older. The portrait of Josephine is quite attractive. This is the best I can offer. Veteran

I thought it would be hard do explain. Don't worry, the situation for a Commander's miniature badge to be worn by a foreign diplomate is rare. All the best Veteran

stanislaw, Usually, a Commander class badge of the Legion of honor (or any other order which is first in preseance) is not worn as a miniature, but full size around the neck. Nevertheless, miniature Commander badges will occur when foreigh recipients wear their own national commander class badges to their necks. In such a case, an officer's gold miniature badge is worn, with a short silver ribbon (canapé) under the rosette sewn on the red suspension ribbon. When only the reduction badges of the orders were worn directly on a chain without ribbons, a foreign recipient of the Legion d'honneur would simply wear a gold badge with no further mark of distinction. Hope this does not seem too confused. I have tried my best. Regards Veteran

You have some very straighforward looking medals. Prices are hard to pin down. Why don't you watch these medals on the french eBay? They come up quite regularly and you could get first hand information about their current market values. In fact, that is just what I do. Regards Veteran

The whole set of French awards were given for the twenty odd years of their presence in the Near East. More specifically : Merite libanais, Merite syrien, Médaille commémorative Syrie-Cilicie, as well as a series of civil service medals. Regards Veteran

This medal looks perfectly genuine and period, the ribbon and bar included. It was awarded in 1922 to French and local troups engaged in pacification of Syria and Lebannon. France first occupied those two former parts of the Ottaman Empire, later received a mandate from the Society of Nations. The bar is unofficial but was widely used and tolerated. Several other bars were issued for later operations. The medal with a similar bar dated 1941 was awarded to French troups loyal to the Vichy Government who resisted attack from the British and Free French. The price you paid is not outrageous. Best regards

Hello Coming back to this rather mysterious medal, I just want to mention that is was not discussed in Giuseppe Morittu excellent little book (Meriti e Decorazioni 1839-1945). It was obviously official but it also seems to have been either rarely awarded or/and generally ignored. Hope further information turns up some time. Regards to all. Veteran