Veteran

If I may add a few words to this topic, it is possible to clear a few points raized here about these badges. I hope Christophe will agree that the French terme "toléré", quite aptly translated as "tolerated", means "unofficial-but-not-outright-illegal". The red star "médaille des blessés" is a good exemple. It was in use for a short period, the normal wear of the red star for war wounds being a small enameled red star on the appropiate campaign medal ribbon. That is strickly enforced by military regulations. A number of veterans wearing their full size medals have the "médaille des blessés" as a distinct badge with the original ribbon for war wounds. They are not going to be jailed for it and most officials will simply look the other way and keep their mouths shut. That is what I understand means the word "toléré". As a WW2 veteran myself, I would not do that but I was lucky not to "qualify" for one. My own father who lost an arm in January 1916 at Verdun had one. Coming back to the "couronné par l'Académie française" statement, this would simply mean that at one time or an other the association which "bestowes" such "awards" discussed on this post received some kind of a recognition from the Académie française. It certainly does not apply to the person who wears that type of private badge. Basically, all this is self-promotion within an mutual-admiration-society as the song used to go.It can sound very confusing indeed ! This being said, some of these badges are quite attractive and collectable for what they are. Best regards Veteran

I am sorry to say I don't really agree with TacHel's description of the origin of both these attractive badges. They are thoroughly PRIVATE "awards" and certainly not semi-official. Private groups have long existed (and still do)in France which "award" badges of this kind to whoever submits what he/she feels to be personnal achievements worth recognition. To my knowledge the French Academy (Académie française) has no wearable awards, only table-mmedals for a limited and well known series of "prizes" (Prix de l'Académie française). Those are not truly government awards, but they are close. Whoever receives one may use the title "Lauréat de l'Académie". The word Académie can be freely used in France, it is the same as "Association". Private groups have naturally taken such titles. The only official ACADEMIES in France are : Académie Française, Académie des Sciences (comparable to the British Royal Society), Académie des Inscriptions & belles lettres, Académie des Beaux-Arts (comparable to the British Royal Academy) and Académie des Sciences morales et politiques. The reunion of these five Académies is known as the "Institut de France". Members of all five Academies are recognized by the official title of "Membre de l'Institut". I am sorry to say that such fake awards are plenty on the market. Collecting them is OK, naturally, but it has to be clearly understood for what it is. Regards Veteran

I am sorry to write that this item has nothing to do with any known French Imperial (Napoleon I or Napoleon III) award. PK is quite right. Depending, of course, on what it was supposed to be when it was offered for sale. It may be, of course, that it is a totally unpublished item.... Veteran

Thank you all for this very enlightning set of information. The ribbon clearly sets the badge I showed as the 21 years service award, as suggested by Paul in the first place. I am most grateful. Veteran

Hello Paul Immediate and accurate information as usual. I really am most grateful. This is a very good start and, as you say, let's hope further detailed information narrows down the period it was awarded. Very best personnal regards Paul

Hello everyone Am I right to believe this badge to be Prussian, Frederick-William III ?. If, so, what Service awarded it, for what exactly and at what period? Were there several classes ? Every bit of information will be gratefully received. Regards Veteran

Fine picture of a old "tirailleur". A veteran of the campaign in Indochina. Could be the standard-bearer of a Veterans'Association. Probably taken in the Yard of the Invalides (design of the windows in the back !). Greetings Veteran

Thank you for showing this excellent picture. Never seen the medal & clasp before. HASS mentions the clasp. Very nice ! Regards Veteran

The green shoulderbaord with red ornements is Foreigh Legion. Only worn as part of the parade uniform for privates, PFCs and corporals, with the blue flannel belt and white képi. Others I am not too sure about

Tim Engineer (Génie) units intitled to a Médaille militaire fourragère were : Compagnie 6/3 du 9e Régiment du Génie Compagnie 6/53 du 9e Régiment du Génie Compagnie 15/12 du 7e Régiment du Génie Compagnie 28/4 du 28e Bataillon du Génie This information comes from : Bulletin Officiel du ministère de la Guerre. Edition méthodique. DECORATIONS et RECOMPENSES DIVERSES. Charles-Lavauzelle & Cie. Paris 1956.

In addition to Michael's note, the name TROCCAZ seems to come from the Savoy or Savoya area of South-Eastern France, until 1860 a part of the Kingdom of Sardinia. Part of the Alpine area of France, populations emigrated traditionnally to the Americas (but mostly to South America). Genealogical research on the 'net might prove helpful Good luck Veteran

Tim I hate to sound discourageaing, but I just cannot imagine how such a vague reference can be successfully put to use through French military papers. Since he is mentioned on a local war memorial, I would rather suggest that you try and find out as much as you can from his own local Birth/Marriage/Death archives, as currently done by family history researchers. This might lead to the story of his enlistment and possibly his war records. The French Medaille Militaire was awarded to hundreds of soldiers, both French and Allies, during WW1. Hoping to find something through French archives without more than you have is looking for a needle in a haystack. But it might prove a very good story indeed. I wish you the very best of luck ! Veteran

Noir 7 is absolutely right. This picture was therefore taken in the Fall of 1929, since àt that time National Service was 12 months. These men would have completed their time in the Army in the winter or early Spring 1930. Best regards Veteran

Hello Kev Quite a typical picture. The caption on the blackboard reads (in military slang) : 162 au jus et la fuite pour le 23/2 When France had compulsory National Service (until the late 1990s), the men would count the days they still had to serve before they would be sent home. In this case these men expected to be escape (la fuite) from the Army in 162 days (le jus) on February 27th. The picture was therefore taken on September 29th (1920-1940 ?). A nice picture. The writer was probably hospitalized at the time he sent the card. Regards Veteran

Thank you for your reply. What period would you think the Medal could be ? As for the cross, how BIG is a BIG PICTURE ? This one is already about x2 true size !. Are copies or fakes known of the cross? The stamped numbers look OK to me. Best regards Veteran

And here is the obverse of the cross Thank you for your kind attention and comments Regards Veteran

Igor This is the best I can do with the cross. The obverse will have to go on the next post

As indicated this is the obverse : What period could that be ? Port-Arthur 1905 ? Or later ?

Hello Igor Thank you for your interest. I have trouble with the pictures of the cross, but this is the reverse of the Medal. The obverse will be shown on the next message.

Hello Coming back to awards of British war medals to French military personnel acting as interpreters or liaison officers with the British troups during WW1, there probably were two situations : It is true that French military personnel, even when detached to British units, were awarded the French World War Commemorative Medal and the French Victory Medal. They were NOT ENTITLED to the British War Medal or Victory Medal. Such was the general understanding among the Allies. On the other hand, British Bravery and Gallantry awards were quite often given to French Liaison or interpreters when the British Command felt they had earned them when they were attached with those Allied units. At HQ level, a number of C.B., D.S.O.and C.M.G.s were awarded. At lower level, it was often a M.C. or a M.M., a M.S.M. or even a D.S.M. Generally unnamed. The R.N. awarded D.C.M.s to a small number of French sailors & ratings, and they were named. Hope this helps Veteran

Bob You have an OUTSTANDING lot of diplomas which deserve without doubt the company of the appropriate medal. This can very simply be obtained by writting : Administration des Monnaies et Médailles Quai de Conti 75006 PARIS FRANCE This medal is normally sold at its current price (I don't know how much but I would doubt it is as much as 25 Euro). The reverse of WW2 type does not have much room for name engraving, which was never officially done. But this can be privately done, wich was also the cas for the WW1 issues. You have every reason to take value this part of your family history. Hope this proves useful Regards Veteran

Hello everyone Sorry I cannot help with Jaybo's question, I wish I could. Two related questions : Is it possible to establish at what periods a Silver Cross (no class indicated) n°96.568 and a 4th Class Silver Medal n°35.797 could have been awarded ? According to Wehrlich (1968) single class Crosses were awarded until 1856 (Crimean War) and the first years of the Caucasus War. The number of awards given by this author would be approximately consistent with a cross n°96.568 be about that period. How far can this be considered reliable ? Same question about the 4th Class Silver medal with the low number ? What period ? Every bit of information will be gratefully received. Thank you Veteran

Hello So our Turkish "Nessie" has been spotted once again!. This new material is consistent with the earlier comments. It really seems that badges were manufactured, in France at least, in the early 1800s. It makes good sense to me. A very pleasant thought. Best regards to all Veteran

Michael I doubt that your grandfather would have qualified for the BWM; interpreters were members of their national armies and received commemorative medals from their countries. This was one of the basic rules established among the Allied armies. On the other hand, they did very often receive bravery awards from the Allied armies they were attached to. The only exceptions were : British, American and Russian volunteer ambulance units serving directly under French Army command The Russian Division serving with the French Army on the Western Front after 1917 The Polish Division serving with the French Army under French command The 1rst Tchecoslovaquian Britande " " " American airmen serving with Escadrille Lafayette 369th, 370th, 371st & 372nd Infantry Regiments US Expeditionnary Force (these were colored soldiers from the New-York National Guard which were found - by the U.S.Army Command - to be better off under French Command). Italian airmen serving on the French front. Italian 3rd & 4th Divisions. The Garibaldi Brigade (Italian volunteers serving with the French before Italy entered the war) Portuguese heavy artillery group serving on the French front. All these units received the French Commemorative and Victory Medals when they were entitled. They should not have received their national commemmorative and Victory medals. These details are little known as a rule. Hope this helps. Regards Veteran