Veteran

Thank you very much Elmar. I now have a very good translation of the naming of this medal. Very impressed with the quality of response found on this website. I am now very curious to know how many of these Sardinian Crimea medals were issued. Best regards Veteran

I had hoped I could show a picture of the Sardinian Crimea campaign medal, but this seems to be beyond my technical ability. Sorry ! Since this thread has such well informed participants, I wonder if I could get further information about the medal I have which is named on its edge : 12o R Sto PELLEGRIN Gni Bta I read it as 12th Regiment Sto (sergeant ?) PELLEGRIN (obviously a man from the french speaking province of Savoya) Gni (grenadieri ?) Bataillon ? Thank you for your help and advice. Veteran

Thank you Montenotte for this excellent information. It recoops my own impressions. I knew the Piemontese had fought with distinction alongside the French in both these battles, for which no British clasp was issued, since the Queen's men had not taken part. I recently bought a Crimean to a Frenchman with the bar TRAKTIR. I therefore suppose any claps to Crimean medals named to Piemontese troups will have been added posteriorly. Incidentally, I also have a decidedly Savoyan medal named to : 1er REGIMENT. MAGNIN JOSEPH without clasp. I understand this 1rst Regiment was mostly drawn from the Savoie. Am I right. Thank you again. Best regards Veteran

Hello François This looks french, probably Paris Mint stricking. To make sure, look at the edge of your medal. If you can spot a hallmark such as a cornocupea or the letters BR or the word BRONZE, then you will probably be sure it is Paris Mint. Hope this helps Veteran

Thanks Elmer Yours is an outstanding medal ! Congratulations. Your suggestion that CUNEO might refer to the town is convincing. Could it be translated as "the 8th (Cuneo) Infantry Regiment" for instance ? How about the ALMA clasp ? Are there any records mentioning the numbers of British Crimean ? Ulsterman, the Sardinian Crimea medal seems to have been known to only a small number of collectors. It is very scarce, but an un-name specimen was sold by DNW - n°616 - a few days ago in London It certainly attracted the attention of a few well healed connoiseers since it sold for £850 hammer price (£1.045 with costs) for an estimate of ...£300/400. It was issued to Sardinian troups with the same ribbon as the British issue, in order to show the award was given for the same reasons. Ercole ERCOLI states gives no indication at to the number of Sardinian Crimeans awarded. The number must have been quite small. Regards Veteran

Hello Queen Victoria sent her Crimean campaign medal to her Allies, both French and Sardinian. The Sardinian had the medals properly named to their recipients, which makes them particularly attractive. But some of the words, frequently shortened, require a better understanding of the Sardinian Army than I have. I would be grateful for information about the following : One such medal is named to a Savoyan artilleryman with the rank indication : BASSo CANNe . Obviously a guner, but would that be a "private"?. An other medal, reads : 8o CUNEO SOLo LAUGERO PIETRO. I wonder what CUNEO stands for. What kind of unit would that be ? Both medals bear several clasps, some British, others possibly French private manufactue. Both have the ALMA clasp. Would Sardinian troups have taken part in that battle, which I believe to have been one of the early ones. How about BALAKLAVA on the second of these medals?. They certainly look as if they had been worn with them. As the story goes, the number of Crimean medals allotted to the Sardinians was insufficient to allow all the soldiers who would have deserved it to receive one. Hence the Sardinian Crimea medal which went to those who did not receive the British issue. I understand 20.000 men were sent to the Crimea under Marquis de La Marmora. The is the true number of British Crimean medal really given known ? They don't seem to come up very often. Does anyone have an idea how scarce they might be ? Every bit of information will be gratefully received. Best regards to everyone Veteran

Tim I agree with Hendrik, this could well be a British made Médaille des Evadés issued durint WW2 to Frenchmen who "escaped" from occupied France to join the Free French (Forces Françaises Libres) or North Africa after the Allied landing there in November 1942. Generally speaking, this medal (which counts as a "titre de guerre = war credit") was given to men who escaped from war prisoner camps after capture and made it back to France to resume fighting. It was created after WW1 in 1926 and those who received it were also awarded a croix de guerre with a mention in dispatches (citation). Survivors of the 1870-71 Franco-Prussian war who had identical services were also intitled to it (but not the Croix de guerre, since it did not exist at the time). It was reactivated in WW2 and given to prisoners of war who escaped (without the automatic croix de guerre) as well as to the men who escaped from occupied France as stated above. Most of these men sneaked through the rather well guarded border to Spain where they were interned for some time. These men were known as "Evadés de France" and there was enough of them to make up such units as the "Commandos de France" in North Africa. They fought the Liberation campaign possibly Elba and Corsica, certainly with the French First Army from the landing in St-Raphael to the final engagements in Southern Germany and Austria. Most of these medals have been manufactured by the Paris Mint, but a number have also been struck by commercial firms. The attachment on your specimen could be British. Regards Veteran

Hello TacHel Nice job translating this very true to type mail.. Not all that easy ! The word "vaguemestre" is typical of French military linguo : the vaguemestre in a unit (generally battallion level) is responsible for receiving and delivering mail to its men. In other words, he is a military postman. He would therefore have an office at H.Q.s in order to receive the out-going mail and prepare delivery within the unit. This is where this man has found a cushy job. And not the MAYOR of course. The confusion may have been between the words VAGUEMESTRE and BOURGMESTRE who is sometimes used for MAYOR. Best regards. Veteran

Very nice group indeed ! The "Protection mutuelle" medals are quite unusual; and the fact that nearly all items are named makes this even more so. The named Police medal is quite scarce. In most cases they are not. Very nice. Thank you for showing this lot. Best regards Veteran

Tim This is a remarquable reunion of a variety of Croix de Guerre. Congratulations. Since the 1914-1917 type was the original title of this series of posts, here is a "show-off" cross in silver bearing those dates (sorry about the reflexion of light which makes the dates hard to see). It is quite genuine and the ribbon suggests it was worn as it is. The palms are also silver.... The true owner of this cross is unknown. The style and combination of stars/palms COULD have been a fly-boy's .... One of my favourite. Regards Veteran

Tim ALL "poin?ons de ma?trise" when they appear on silver goods are diamond-shaped; the actual firm can be told from the minute letters and symbols which are incused into the diamond hallmark. A large number of firms have, at one time or an other, manufactured Legion of honor badges. AUCOC used a vertical diamond with two AA (difficult to tell !) separated by an arrow-head under a coq and surmounting Cie. Very hard to see without a powerful jeweler's glass....and even with one ! Regards Veteran

Hi Tim The picture is a silver gilt badge of an officer of the Legion d'honneur. The hallmark at 6 o'clock is for silver. The diamond-shaped other halmark is the maker's (poin?on de ma?trise). Nice piece, with just the few enamel chips due to effective wear. Congratulations Veteran

Tim To be quite acurate, this type was introduced on 29 Feb. 1951 when the date "1870" was removed fom the obverse medallion and replaced by a star. In 1951, the Fourth Republic had been established for several years (1948). The same type was used in until November 28th 1962, when the reverse medallion receved the added date : "29 FLOREAL AN X" (April 29th 1802) which was the founding date of the Order. The Fourth Republic became the Fifth Republic in 1958. This type should probably be discribed as "late Fourth Republic / early Fifth Republic" or more acurately "1951-1962 type". In this way the exact and very short period during which it was in use is properly described. The previous "IIIrd Republic" type was used from September 1870 until February 1961, the longest ever, covering also the "Vichy Regime" and early IVrth Republic. The present type has now been in use for nearly half a century. Regards Veteran

Thank you so much, Paul, for the information you bring. As usual it is right on the mark and most convincing. The word BENEMERENTIBUS might mean it was given on the King's birthday in 1750 as a token of appreciation to "the worthy". The fact you report that it also exists dated the year 1751 might support this view. It is a pleasure to hear from you once more. Your opinion is highly appreciate. I am most grateful. With my very best personnal regards Paul

When I bought this large (53mm/58grs) silver medal I thought it commemorated the founding of the polish Order of the White Eagle. It was obviously period, as it had been used as a marriage-medal between Jean Cardeux & Marie-Rose Viader on the 20th of October 1783, who had it engraved. It was shown to Zdzislaw P. Wesolowski in the early '80s when he was preparing his book on Polish Decorations (1705-1985). A picture was made of the medal which he published as figure 18, page 11 of the 1985 printing of the book. It is there described as : "Medal Benemerentibus. King August III established a civilian decoration on August 3, 1749 to be awarded for outstanding service in public and social service, arts and sciences. The medal had the bust of the king in royal regalia with the following words : AUGUSTUS III D.G. REX POLONIARUM. The reverse had a table on which the chain of the Order of the White Eagle rests. Below the table, the date of the establishment of the medal, 3 Aug. MDCCXLVIIII. Above the table in Latin : DE REGE ET REPUBLICA BENE MERENTIBUS (FOR MERITORIOUS SERVICE TO THE KING AND THE REPUBLIC). The medal was made by Wermuth. 50mm in silver". Could anyone help me decide whether it is a commemorative medal or a true award ?. I would certainly be happier to go along with Wesolowski's definition, but I really have a doubt. Are other pieces known to exist ? Suggestions will be gratefully received. Thank you Very best regards Veteran

Hello Herl? The breast star of a Grand Cross of the Legion of honor would have been worn on the left side of his tunic. Grand officers wear it on the right side as the threaded arrangements suggest. Naturally this does not mean that this officer was not a grand cross, as his ribbon bar would also suggests. He might have some other device on the right side and not have removed the arrangement he previously had, since the French system of awards makes it a rule that you have to move up every step within a same order. Quite a mind-teeser. Regards Veteran

This commander's badge was made during the reign of Mohamed es Sadok 1859-1882 and you are quite right, the hallmark on the reverse is typically Tunisian. Such badges are the true order. European made badges are a lot better to look at, but (to me at least) they don't quite have the romance of the original stuff (I collect both, naturally !) A lot of new interest is helping Tunisian orders to become better known, and they deserve it. Completing a full set of badges for each reign is quite a challenge... I really hope you fully enjoy this badge you have. Regards Veteran

Some one has really enjoyed putting ribbons together. Absolutly impossible, of course. But why get angry ? Who has to buy this ? It simply shows, once again, that either you know what you are looking at and recognize something you want, or you don't know and you take chances or keep clear. Thanks for sharing this eye-full. I really enjoyed looking at it. Regards Veteran

Hello Chris You are quite right, this man seems to have made his carreer with the Bat'd'Af and wound up as an officer. The NCOs and officers were naturally not drawn from the men who were serving their military obilgations with the Batd'Afs. They either volonteered from other units or were assigned to such commands. Generally speaking, they were picked because they were strict disciplinarians and had proven their capacity to handle tough caracters. A very unusual and significant group of scarce documents. The carreer of this officer could probably be traced from the Service Historique de l'Arm?e at Vincennes, near Paris..... once they will have recovered from moving from one side of the yard to their new location and will have had the time to find their bearings there. Congratulations and thanks for sharing Veteran

The matter of buying or being given french awards is a fairly simple one, but it does take some explaination. The french government or agencies with power to bestowe orders and decorations publish the names of persons who are entitled to them. According to the type of award, this is done in the "Journal Officiel de la R?publique fran?aise", the "Bulletin officiel des d?corations, m?dailles et r?compenses" or the various "Bulletins minist?riels". Intitlement to wear a number of commemorative medals can also be decided at Unit level in some instances. Ever since the establishment of the Legion of honor in 1802, the decision was taken to allow badges to be made by jewellers who had a good reputation. The insignia are usually bought by the people who are intitled to wear them. Quite often friends or the Agency or military unit the awardee belongs to will arrange for the badges to be acquired and presented, Agency or unit who has deserved them. This is possible with the Foreigh Service who has sufficient finances to buy the insignia to be presented to Foreigners on behalf of the Republic. It also happens when Regiments or other Units decide to present their men (or women) with the badges they are entitled to. But this does not mean the French Government presented them. It also means the badges are the property of who ever received them. No return on the holder's death ! One exception : some Government Agencies have their "coins priv?s", which means that they are the only authorities intltled to bestowe awards they alone can have made to order. Such is the case of a number of "m?dailles d'honneur", mainly awarded by the Ministry of Defense : Exemples are : M?daille de la Gendarmerie, M?daille d'honneur du Service de Sant? des Arm?es, M?dailles d'honneur des employ?s civils du minist?re de la D?fense (Terre, Mer, Air). These can never be freely bought from private firms or from the Paris Mint. Which means that all French awards are the property of those who earn and wear them. Hope I have been clear. Greetings to all. Veteran

Hello gents This is a nice badge. I agree the cypher is hard to read, this being due to the art of Arabic writing which can be very elaborate. I would begg to differ with our esteemed colleague Bison as to its possible origin. Most local badges I have ever seen have the silver hallmark, but not all. But mostly, the cypher in the obverse center is usually written in the center piece of the obverse, with the green enamel added. It gives a slighly shabby appearance. The center piece of this particular badge is a separate part, added over a green enamel background. It gives a very much finer look. The absence of hallmark does not eradicate a French made badge : hallmarks were not compulsary if it was not mean to be sold on French soil. The overall finish is more elaborate than most local products. I would think it is continental, probably French. A desirable item, worthy of the best collections. Its value is hard to establish precisely. They can be currently picked up on eBay between 70 and 130 Euro depending on condition, origin and cypher. Regards Veteran

The Foreign Legion has a firm tradition : no man ever was ordered to fight against his own people. In two instances, a legionnaire might be fighting against his native country : 1. He volunteered to do so. I personnally have known several Germans who fought on the Western Front against the Wehrmacht. They sometimes served under names that did not sound german. But only three units were engaged in active operations during that period : R?giment de Marche de la L?gion ?trang?re, R?giment ?tranger de cavalerie & 13e Demi-Brigade. Most of the other units were serving in areas where actvie fighting against the Germans or the Italians never occured. 2. He enlisted as a national of an other country than Germany or Italy and did not wish to change anything about that. In such a case he may have been selected for one of those three regiments, or joined directly in France, which was an other way of volunteering. If he changed his mind, he could just have requested an interview with his commanding officer who would have seen that he would be sent to another unit. Simple as that ! Regards Veteran

Hello Chris Nice document. The citation was issued by the Commandant of a "bataillon formant corps" (I could not read the complete stampted name of this unit, could you please write it out ?). The ribbon of his croix de guerre would then sport a bronze star. Just consider this as a variant of a citation ? l'ordre du r?giment. Regards Veteran

I agree with noir7, the very first level for a "citation' (litterally mention in dispaches) was the "unit? formant corps". This was currently the regiment. Traditionnally, certain corps or services could be independant at battallion level such as the Chasseurs ? pied, Chasseurs alpins, Infanterie l?g?re d'Afrique, bataillons m?dicaux. The mentions would then be established by their command, but the citation would be known as Regiment (or possibly Half-Brigade with the Chasseurs) level. It really did not matter much, since Regimental and Brigade levels were considered to be nearly equivalent, with the same bronze star denoting the type of citation on the croix de guerre ribbon. Regards Veteran