Veteran

I am afraid I must agree that this medal is one of (or the) worst products of french engraving. Suppose they are trying so hard to put up something different and "modern" that they go the wrong way. This has often happened with postage-stamps. Now what I understand about the new French Commemorative Medal is that it is the General Service Medal. The Oversees Medal is only given when their is a "campaign" or when combat conditions in distant areas are obvious. For instance, operations in Europe are not considered to be Overseas. The decision is taken at GHQ if one or the other medal is in order. Normally it is one or the other according to the outfit, the "campaign" or operation, and the place where things happended. Regards Veteran.

Thank you very much, this is great. Seems the medal was a warlord's in the 1910-20s. Too bad the gent's mug is missing then, which I understand is the case. On the other hand, the finish is impressive, a very pleasant looking medal. Please give us more as it comes to you. Very best regards to all of you. Veteran

Mark, Quite a story on that man's chest... Was emprisonned for Resistance activities, jumpted the Pyrennes, fought in the 1944-45 campaign in Frence and possibly Germany and was mentinned (croix de guerre). He may have served in the ranks and decided to stay with the Army after the war as an officer, after attending officer-candidate school. It seems clear he was with the Legion as a Major (Chef de bataillon) possibly at the end of his carreer. But you must not forget that in the French Army you can move from one type of infantry regiment such as the Legion to a batallion of Chasseurs, or a line infantry regiment. His name sounds germanic, but so are names of a number of people in Alsace and Lorraine. He might very well have lived in those parts early in the war and been imprisonned by the Germans for evading military service with the Wehrmancht. He obviously went on to fight in Indochina which was true of all professionnal soldiers at the time, and later in Algeria. Try and get the story from the family if you can. With the Foreign Legion, mum's the word. You cannot get personnal records of an officer before 120 years have elapsed since his day of birth. This man should have been born in the early '20s. An other lead would be to write to the Foreigh Legion Magasine (K?pi Blanc BP78 13673 AUBAGNE FRANCE) asking them if a paper was ever written about him. Good luck and cheers Veteran

Thank your very much, Enzo, for your very fast reply and kind compliments. Strangely, this award has been in my collection for decades and was nearly forgotten, since I mostly collect other types of material. I agree that few come round on the market - the last one I saw was 10 years ago at an auction in Paris. It is interesting that the the first reply I receive about this Austrian Order would come from Nothern Italy. Many years ago, I was priviledged to see a large part of Dr. Fattovich's collection in Venice. A fantastic experience. This fine gentleman died a few months later. I will be certainly looking forward to any further details you might find about Schmidt. Very best regards Veteran

Chris The comparative series of MOM you put up is very enlightening. Thank you for taking the trouble to post it to the community's benefit. I am truly happy you found a good M?daille d'Outre-Mer. As I wrote in a previous message, they look just as good as the M?daille coloniale, and this award is really the one you earned. It will look aged when it will HAVE aged. But that is the one I would wear if I were in your shoes. You have a worthy set of well earned awards. No use "improving them" by pretense. Remember, one mistake makes the whole set look fishy. Incidentally, I had my own CC inscribed in the back, with rank and serial number. It does not show up much now that patina has done its job, but it's there. If I were to have it done again, I would have the naming blackened. Keep us posted with your project. Best regards Veteran

Hello everyone Would anyone have an idea of what this (incomplete) medal might be. I am sorry the reverse seems to lack part of its center. It is quite large (42mm-22grs) and heavy in what seems to be enameled glit metal (possibly silver, no hallmark found). The enamel finish is very good. Information will be gratefully received. Greetings Veteran

According to a very knowlegeable collector, this early Commander's cross of the Austrian Order of Leopold bears the hallmark of Ignaz Joseph Schmidt, who was a jeweller in Wien in the early 1800s. This collector has an other badge of the same order, same style, same hallmark. Jacobs (Court Jewellers of the World) does not mention him. Would any member of this forum have further information about Schmidt and the period during wich he was active as a maker of Imperial Orders? The unusual ribbon (normally red with white bordering stripes) might be a French combination of O. of Leopold + O. od St. Louis + Legion of honor.) Knowing how long SCHMIDT was active will allow an evaluation of the period during which this badge of the second type of the Order introduced in 1812 may have been made. The third, enlarged, type of badges was entroduced circa 1860. Any information will be most welcome. Best regards Veteran

Hi Chris Nice project. Keep us posted with the results and tell us how you feel about both mounting techinques Best regards Veteran

Hi Chris Pleased to read you have received my P.M. The british style of mounting is OK I believe for any one who is not in the French regular forces. But I would suspect a full court-mounting might appear to be a little bit thick, if it does not include British awards. It intails a lot of ribbon material. On the other hand, if you simply want to display your set of awards, they can be arranged very neetly in a row in a glass-frame, don't you think ? Your idea of having an "improved" Gulf medal sounds very attractive. Cheers Veteran

Hello Garth I certainly agree with GRA that Symboles & Traditions have a fine set of reference books on Regimental badges. In fact they are still completing coverage of all French unit badges. The site will give help you find the books you need, if they are still available. You mignt like to try : Service de la Symbolique militaire. Service Historique de la D?fense. Fort de Vincennes F 94000 VINCENNES FRANCE. They might have a website as well. Hope this helps. Cheers Veteran

Hello Bernhart Nice to hear from you. It is great fun that we all enjoy medal collecting (or what is it else you collect ?). Let's keep posted. Cheers Veteran

Chris Don't be embarrassed about the amount of "fruit salad" your contract brought you. It is a fiting representation of your services as a soldier in your time and environment. You earned it, period. I fully concurr with your analysis of the cascade of awards which sometimes occurs. To be frank, I have always worn both the Croix du combattant and the Croix du combattant volontaire as a compliment to those who had the Croix du combattant but not the other one because they had been draugnted or called up as reservists. On the other hand, although I am intitled to the Temoignage de reconnaissance de la Nation, I have not had it encluded on my medal bar and I have not made up my mind about it yet. Not wearing in might be snobish toward those for whom it is the best award they have. Still wondering about that. Sent a PM yesterday after-noon. Cheers Veteran

You are absolutely right. Not only were the badges not returnable (since they were not issued by the Government) but they had to be bought. Often they would be presented by a group of friends or some organisation the awardee would belong to. Badges, in most cases, are privately owned, which is the reason why so many different firms have been making them over the times. This is still the case to-day. The last French awards to be returnable were the Order of Saint-Louis, until 1830. Cheers Veteran

Hello Chris The Paris Mint (Administration des Monnaies et M?dailles; you will find them on the 'net) offer the silver issue of the M?d. O-M. It is regulation and the finish is always the best. You are right about the Combattant volontaire part in my message. I was intitled because I signed up "for the duration" and not a traditional contract. That would have made the difference. I am sorry I brought up a false issue. Aubagne should be able to deliver duplicates of papers lost in operations. After all, such an instance is a "risque du m?tier" is it not ? I lost my whole "paquetage" during the battle in and around the Moulin de Jebsheim early 1945 and received a full replacement when I came back from military hospital. I am quite impressed with the number of awards you have received or you have a right to claim. Your medal bar will be 6 or 7 long by the time you complete your home-work. You are a case of "Join the Legion and see the World" ! The lot should look very good indeed. (It took me 43 years war and Reserves services to get that many ! PM attached) Riley 1964 I can understand your remarks about getting one's due when it comes to gongs. Important awards are usually delt with by the hierarchy whose job it is to see that special services or outstanding behaviour is rewarded. Others have to be claimed. Some come with the rations. I would think all men in the Services know about this. Things are different for awards which are created after a man's contract is over. Veterans have to keep posted if they really want to be keep up with their rights. Veteran organisations are very good for that. Am I right to think that we are a number here to have served wearing the grenade with seven flames ? Cheers Veteran

Rick 20 francs in those days was equivalent to a Guinea, a truly significant amount. The fee could be officially waved when permission was asked on reasonnable grounds. But no fee, no entry in the Order. It still is that way to day. In those days, no one would have gone and worn a un-earned order. It was a matter of decency. And if any one would dare to do so and get caught, the cost was a heavy fine and prison term. You had to get a receipt from the Tax administration for further administrative preliminary paperwork could be completed. Cheers Veteran

Hello Chris This is a fine story in so many episodes. I am glad you qualified for the Croix de combattant... You will certainly have obtained the "Carte du Combattant" which truly is the "Certificate" and permission to wear. If you have not, I would suggest that you apply with the Office National du Combattant responsable for your residence. I fully agree with you : the modern issue of the cross is an abomination i and support your decision to use a properly bronzed older stricking, which is ever so much better. Nothing wrong that, you can choose one variety or tho other, they are the same award. Since you were an "engag? volontaire" as all legionnaires are, the combination should allow you to receive the Croix du combattant volontaire with clasp for the theater where you earned the Croix du Combattant. This is a decoration, a "titre de guerre" on par with a citation. You will have to apply and if you qualifiy, you will receive a numbered and named "brevet". The award will also be published in the "Bulletin officiel des d?corations, m?dailles et r?compenses" published by the Journal Officiel. Keep us posted. When you get it, you will have to give it number one position on your ribbon bar and set of medals. You cannot wear a M?daille coloniale. That award was obsolete even before you were born. If you want to be "r?glementaire" as you certainly were trained to be with the Legion (or things there must have changed a lot since my time), you wear what you are entitled to. Naturally you will be the only one to know, since you will be showing only the obverse, which is identical..... BUT YOU WILL KNOW ! This being said, the older strickings of the Medaille d'Outre-Mer by the Paris Mint look just as good as the previous M?daille coloniale of post-WW2 manufacture. I don't know what the current strickings look like, but I bought one of the very first for my collection, and it is Mint hallmarked for the finest silver alloy they ever used (cornucoppia - 1 - cornucoppia). It is perfect. As you know, a lot of cheaper issues float about. I certainly would stay away from them if I were in your shoes. If you dislike the medal you saw, I am sure you can find a proper one the same way you found the Croix du combattant. I have told you my mind, for what it is worth. As an "grand Ancien" should when a younger "Ancien" asks. I certainly enjoy reading your excellent posts and sharing our common taste for medal collecting. Et Vive la L?gion, N.. de D... ! Veteran

Garth I am more of an ODM man but two of them I know : - upper row silvery badge is 1er R(?giment) d'A(rtillerie) C(oloniale) du M(aroc) - the 5 pointed star on the the lower row is the 4e R?giment d'Infanterie Marocaine. Both these regiments belonged to the French First Army (1944-45) as part of the 4e Division Marocaine de Montagne I believe. But I could not tell if they are period badges. Cheers Veteran

Hello The "marking" you refer to on the edge of the medal is most certainly a cornucoppia, the hallmark of the Paris Mint. Such named medals are extremely scarce on the market, and I cannot recall seeing one go by. In consequence I could not suggest a possible value for it. You might get what you paid for it or more, depending on the selling conditions. The number of collectors of artefacts of that period is unknown. But it could also appeal to collectors of Naval or Air forces medals. Thank you for showing the medal and the badges, which are probably scarce too, since balloonists certainly were not many in those days. Cheers Veteran

Hello I fully agree about named medals, and that is why I bought (quite expensively) the one I just showed. What size and metal is yours ? Does it also have the cornucoppia and metal hallmarks on the edge? A kick check of the list of pilots of the 66 balloons whch flew out of Paris, none was names Emile Lorrain. Ground crews were certainly navy and a "matelot" = sailor would have been employed there. His name and rank are nevertheless most probably genuine. One would have to know where he was born to obtain his service papers, which makes research on enlisted personnel very awkward. Sorry about that. This said, I would have bought your medal the minute I saw it. It is the third only I see in over 40 years collectiong quite actively, and the one I showed is the only one I ever personnally came across. They are VERY SCARCE. And, to my knowledge, none were ever officially named. Congratulations. Paul

This is an enlargement of the engraving on my medal. The balloon was the "L?on Gambetta" and the name attached is A. H?mard in gothic lettering. Obviously private issue. Unfortunately, no way to verify.... Hope you find these comments of interest. One has to rely on one's "feeling" since no official issue was ever made. The medals were struck by the Paris Mint for sale to whoever wanted them. Now engraving was expensive and usually obtained when circumstances made it worth while. In truth, such medals are to be considered as privately made souvenirs. The French were touchy about the 1870-71 war. It took over 40 years for surviving veterans to receive a medal... Cheers Paul .

Steve You have here a very interesting medal (incidentally is it silver ? what size ?). This type of non-weareable medal was in fact used for a very long time as an award to people who raised messenger-pigeons, a favorite hobby in the North of France. But this one is obviously and probably privately named to a sailor member of the balloon crews. These balloons were used to carry mail and few important people out of Paris during the siege; most of them were manned by naval personnel. This man may have served with a ground crew. The medals I have (3) all bear the same mint-mark (cornocuppia + ARGENT or BRONZE) Which means they were struck after 1879. I show you a silver 50mm diameter one, made up to be worn and privately engraved with a balloon and its name with a surname in gothic lettering. The medal also exists in silver and bronze 62mm diameter. A second message will show the engraving on this medal. Yours is a nice piece. More later if I can get hold of a list of pilots. Cheers Paul

Hello K?pi blanc I am not so sure this uniform would qualify as FFL (Forces Fran?aises Libres). This denomination is restricted to troups who joined the Gaullists between 1940 and 1943. Later the regiments who had made the FFL up were included into the French Army as such in the campaign in Italy as part of the 1?re Div. Fran?aise Libre which was to become the 1e Div. Motoris?e d'Infanterie during the campaign in France 1944/45. The 13e 1/2 Brigade de la L?gion ?trang?re belonged to that division. The two other Legion regiments (R?giment de Marche de la L?gion ?trang?re RMLE and the R?giment ?tranger de Cavalerie REC) were part of the 5th Armoured Division. The RMLE was the armoured infantry and the REC the recce regiments. Both regiments were fully equiped with american GI uniforms and weapons. The 13th 1/2 Brigade retained british equipment to a point. Best wishes for the New Year Veteran

Hello Jeff Badges are not really my field, but I hate to think that you could remain without some kind of a reply. The only one I can tell is the very first : Gendarmerie for one of the Regions (Provinces) in Metropolitan France. Gendarmerie is a national police force whose men are drawn from the armed forces, to which they continue to belong; they are distinct from the National Police and the Republican Security Companies (C.R.S.) who are members of the Ministry of the Interior (Home Office). I hope the three other badges are identified for you. Merry Xmass Personnal regards Veteran

Hello Prosper, thanks for your message. Yes we must... Let's arrange that by p.m. Yes, Chris, I have all his awards. He was later advanced to become an Officier, and then a Commandeur in the Legion d'honneur for his work in favour of wounded war veterans at national and international levels. Merry Xmass to both of you. Veteran

Christopher These are quite rare pictures of men in the Zouave Regiments. A wonderful group of decorations to a true warrior. And the pictures are extremely evocative. Zouaves were considered to be, along with the Foreign Legion, the crack colonial infantry regiments in the French forces. Although they were stationed in North Africa, they were practically all European descent soldiers. I cannot resist the temptation to add this picture of my own father, who was commissioned into the 3e R?giment de Zouaves as as second lieutenant in August 1915. This picture was taken a few days after he received the single gold stripe showing his rank and proudly wearing the red "chechia", the distinctive head-dress of the African troups. On his collar, the Regimental number "3". ! By the time AIME received his croix de guerre, my father had been a casualty. Having transfered to the 2nd Tirailleurs, in the African division, he had lost an arm in February 1916 rallying men whose officers had all been killed and bringing them back to stop the German onslaught, a couple of miles north of Verdun. On the day the Fort of Douaumont was lost, hardly a mile fron where the were fighting. They were successful and he received an immediate Legion of honor with a palm on his croix de guerre. The Germans never made it to Verdun. I never knew my father with the left arm and hand shown here scratching that pup's neck. As most members of their generation, what those men went through cannot be described in words that mean anything to-day... Congratulations. Merry Xmass Veteran