James Hoard

Although I have seen that mentioned on the web, that decoration wasn't conferred on the Sultan of Jambi but on an envoy who went to Turkey. I had a note of his name somewhere but cannot now find it. If you look carefully, the example is of a lower class decoration (3rd class?). A reigning Sultan would have at least received the 1st class or the murassa (bejewelled) grade. Cheers, James

Is there any evidence of Arabic script anywhere on the reverse side of this decoration? If,like the obverse, there is no Arabic inscription I would doubt very much if this was a Moroccan decoration. It may well have been conferred on Moroccan troups who took part in the campaign but, if so, probably conferred by the Congolese government. Cheers, James Hoards

He served as a young officer during the Java War of 1826-1830 with the Mankunegaran Legion's Parjurit Company and Captain of Infantry. So the second decoration was probably for those services. Was there a "War Cross" for that campaign? Cheers, James

I don't think that is the Governor-General but probably the local Resident or Governor. The Sultan's list of decorations read as follows: Knight Grand Cross of the Order ofOrange-Nassau, and Commander of the Order of the Netherlands Lion, Grand Cross of the Orders of the Wendish Crown of Mecklenburg,Royal Order of Cambodia, and Black Star of Benin of France, Grand Cordon (2nd class) of theOrder of the Brilliant Jade of China, Knight Commander of the Order of the Crownof Siam, Grand Cordon of the Order ofLeopold, Grand Officer of the Order of Leopold II of Belgium, and the Order ofthe Million Elephants and White Parasol of Luang Prabang, Commander with Star of theOrder of Vasa of Sweden. Although some can be seen clearly in your picture, it is far too small to identify all of them very accurately. Cheers, James Hoard

The other orders would be the Bintang Kumpeni, Bintang Dandaels and the Kanjeng Kyai Suryawasesa. Although the last is highest ranking of all the Surakarta decorations, I would not be able to point out which one is which. Cheers James Hoard

This is a portrait of H.H.Sri Paduka Sultan al-Sayyid Sharif Muhammad ibni al-Marhum Sultan al-Sayyid Sharif Yusuf al-Kadri, Sultan of Pontianak, reigned 1895-1944. He was beheaded by the Japanese, along with a score of other Bornean rulers at Mandor in June 1944. Apart from the ON, the other orders are his own. The picture seems to date from a period relatively early in the twentieth century. By the late 1930's the Sultan seems to have instituted at least two other orders. Alas, I have still not even been able to discover even their names, let alone any details about them. The present Sultan and his family do not know anything about these decorations. Cheers, James Hoard

This picture is of H.H. Sri Paduka Ratu Anak Agung Agung AnglurahKetut Karangasem, Raja of Karangasem, reigned 1908-1950. The orders and decorations that he held were: Officer of the Order of Orange-Nassau, Great Gold Star for Loyalty and Merit, Nishan-i-Iftihkar 4thclass of Tunisia, Officer of the Order of the Black Star of Benin of France,and 5th class of the Order of the White Elephant of Siam. All of which you can see worn in the picture. Cheers James Hoard

I would also add under "cultural factors" the very particular attitude of the Japanese to these things. First, the awards come from the Emperor and are a gift from him. So they have a sacredness of sorts attached to them. Second, the Japanese are very careful with such things anyway. In the normal antique and art markets, unless things are in perfect condition, they simply do not buy! Cheers, James

A wonderful post and wonderful thread to read through and enjoy, but I am not at all sure of the accuracy of the above statement. What about Sudan, Somaliland, Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, Palestine/Israel, Nepal, and all the Gulf states. Not to mention Pakistan going out and coming in several times. Cheers, James.

Without question. I had noticed that some of the gainsayers who appeared here to join comment have been careful with their words. Not so when the same individuals have commented on Beharry's VC in other fora, where the comments had more than a tinge of that very debilitating illness - racism. Cheers, James Hoard

Harvey, The neck badge is the Sovereign's badge of the Order of the Bath (not the KCB). The chain is the Royal Victorian Chain (not the KCVO) As I said, he is kitted out for the French State Visit so the breast star of the Legion of Honour is given equivalent place beside the Garter. The riband is also the Legion of Honour. The removal of the Military Order of Savoy means that the Russian Order of St Vladimir 'with sword's moves up a place. Cheers, James

Here is a print-out of a photograph of the actual uniform and decorations worn by George VI, dressed-up for the French State Visit, from the Royal Collection at http://www.royalcoll...&detail=magnify Note the sovering's badge of the Order of the Bath with St Edward's Crown, the Queen Victoria Diamond Jubilee Medal in silver with clasp, crowned Edward VII Cornation Medal, and the absence of the Military Order of Savoy (in accordance with the ruling on Italian decorations in 1941). Cheers James

That seems to have the appropriate Edward VII Coronation ribbon, but the medal itself is something else. As far as I know, the actual EVII Coronation Medal has a raised wreath around the edge and a crown between the top of the rim and the ribbon suspension loop. Cheers, James

Indeed so. The Edward VII Coron Medal is missing and the Garter riband goes under, not over the belt. I take back what I said about creative skills. They have been allowed to go beserk with whatever is in place third from right, where the Military Order of Savoy is supposed to be. Looks like someone has started off with a Spanish Isabel the Catholic and made "creative adjustments". As for the first photograph, I still do not see any evidence of the GCIE. There is a slight shadow cast by the ribbon of the GCVO ribbon, just like the GCB above it, nothing more. Cheers, James

The costumiers invariably get these things wrong. In this case he or she has assumed that there is nothing under the lapel. Consequently, the GCIE is missing. I suppose one good thing this time is that he has stopped himself from exercising his 'creative skills' and invented something completely different. Cheers, James

Windu, Many thanks for posting the image of the 5th class. It helps a lot to see the ribbon in full colour. It is also interesting to see the two types of miniature. Cheers, James

Dear Windu Thanks for both your posts. Your descriptions of the ribbons may suggest that each class had a different arrangement of colours. Are the lower class ribbons in your pictures exactly the same for both in terms of arrangement of the colours, width of stripes, location of stripes, etc or slightly different? Could you please tell us what is the Javanese term for loyalty, and thus the full official name for the order in Javanese? I am by no means an expert. There is very little information on these orders in Western sources, so I am learning all the time. You are, however, quite right about values and quality as can be seen from inverted decoration I posted much earlier. The restoration looked like it was merely painted rather than enamelled. Cheers, James

Windu, Many thanks for posting this rare decoration. Is the ribbon correct or is it a new replacement with the ribbon for the Bintang Kraton decoration? I ask because I have this photograph of Prince Soejono Handayaningrat from the 1950's wearing a higher class of the same decoration, but the ribbon is dark with either white (or a light colour) edge stripes. Here is a blow up of the two decorations he is wearing. Cheers, James

Marcus, Thanks for posting this lovely image. The Order of Humayoun (which means' the August') was an entirely new order and had nothing to do with the earlier Qajar Order of the Lion and Sun. Although the image of the Lion and Sun was used for the new order, this is a national symbol and used in many instances. On the contrary, that Order of the Lion and Sun had become so discredited and so associated with corruption that everybody, the Pahlavis and even the last Qajar Shah wanted to drop any association with it. Indeed, if one looks at the Humayun, the only link is in the use of the Iranian national symbol, though even then the illustration is very different. The ribbon, shape of the badges and stars, classes, method of wear, are all different. For comparative purposes if one looks at the British system of honours, the use of the St George symbol (and even name) for the George Cross, George Medal or the Order of St Michael and St George does not mean that all of these are part of the Order of the Garter! Cheers, James Hoard

My understanding was that all the non-political decorations that are conferred by HM on her own initiative, as opposed to "on the advice of her ministers", provided that they are non-titular,have remained part of the Canadian Honours System throughout. In effect this means the Royal Victorian Chain, Order of Merit, the Royal Victorian Order in the ranks of Commander, Lieutenant and Member, and the Royal Victorian Medal. Appointments are listed in both the London Gazette and Canada Gazette. There are usually a few appointments to the Royal Victorian Order every year. Pretty much the same applies in Australia, New Zealand and Jamaica. Though in these cases HM is entitled to confer the titular decorations also, i.e. the Garter, Thistle, GCVO and KCVO. Cheers, James Hoard

Johore orders will be pretty hard to come by as they have always been awarded rather sparingly, unlike the other Malaysian states. Sometimes a year can go by without a single award appearing in the honours list. The medals will be easier to get. Either way, Singapore is probably going to be a more likely source than KL. Singapore is closer to JB and the Royal Family, court and officials tend to own property and frequent the place more than KL. There used to be the Royal Medal Manufacturing Co (Singapore) somewhere near the golf course, but I looked them up on the net recently and they now seem to be into furniture! So it may be best to visit a few coin dealers in Singapore and ask around when there. Cheers James Hoard

Hello Emmanuel, The original image was from a dealer (in Australia?) to a friend of mine. But the decoration seemed that it had been heavily and not wery well repaired, the "enamalling" looked like paint, so he did not go ahead with the purchase. The ribbon is also a modern ribbon, as handed out by the Susuhanan of Surakarta from the 1980s/1990s. Cheers, James

Not so. According to the official terminology of the statutes of orders concerned, as opposed to one invented-on-the-hoof, an honorary award is one that is supernumery to establishment. The Indian princes were part of the establishment.

Certainly not honorary. The statutes of both Indian orders reserved a certain number of knighthoods in each to the Indian princes. Also, in relation to a previous poster, although this particular prince was the last knight, he is certianly not the last prince to have ruled his own state. Furthermore, 1947 is an assumed but almost always an incorrect date. Incorporation in either India or Pakistan and the loss of sovereighnty varied according to princely state, and ranged anywhere from 1948 to as late as 1956.