wlodzimierz

Very interesting Filip, this certificate was issued on 24th of March 1947 by Staff of 2nd Yugoslav Army. Interesting is that, with law issued on 31th of January 1946 the authority of granting awards moved to the Presidency of Federate People's Republic of Yugoslavia. It seems to be one of the last Order of Bravery issued by the Staff of Army. Please post better image of both document and order as soon you can. Thank you Filip Waldemar

Здравствуйте! you are probably right, I knew that there are different colors of boxes but I was not sure if it should be new type. But probably yes. Nice pieces waldemar

Super addition , I think that there is a certificate for Order for Bravery issued by JNA itself. I assume that s/n of the document and the order are the same. Could you post better scan of this document and order? Thank you Filip waldemar

Hi Ulsterman, great new order, congratulation The text on the needle it must be ZIN-KOVNICA, or ZNB-KOVNICA. In fact, it was the same producer ZIN = "Zavod za Izradu Novcanica" after nationalization (I think) in 1948 the factory was merged into National Bank. The name has been changed to ZNB = "Zavod Narodne Banke" as well. But it doesn't mean that all needle starting from 1948(?) had the new name. waldemar

Great Luka , please send this image. Thank you waldemar

and 6 boxes for 3rd cl.

and 5 boxes for 2nd cl (not shown is box with name of the order 'Order for Vojnicke Zasluge II Reda', 1952 - 1955)

at the moment I found images of 5 boxes for 1st cl.

Great videoclip thank you Bryan :beer:

You are right SasaYU, Order of Labor 1st cl. - they have there a mistake, since the awarding document does not match the order. This is Awarding document for Order fo National Merit 1st cl. The same with ribbon, this ribbon for Order of Labor 2nd cl. I think that they have enough knowledge to make a right classification, I think that these items were put together by mistake. Thank you Sasa :cheers:

Congratulation , this is indeed rare order, as far I know only 769 were granted. The early type has serial number on revers. Will you tell us what s/n if any has this order? Nice piece with box and ribbons. :cheers:

Gentlemen, there are some auctions offering YU awards: Auctions in Vienna Hans Dieter Rauch The renowed Austrian ODM-dealer Hans Dieter Rauch http://www.hdrauch.com/auction/coins/index...50f2df18b9ff6a4 makes on the 18th of June an auction in Vienna. -> some YU awards, many Mongolian and interesting Soviet Orders will be sold. Some of those orders were posted in this forum: Baranovsky Group, Alexander Nevsky, Kutusov 2cl. Dorotheum Well know auction house Dorotheum http://www.dorotheum.com/auktionen/auktion...gen-200509.html makes on 20th of June an auction in Vienna. -> Only one YU Order, some Serbian and one Soviet order. Auction in Zagreb Barac & Pervan Next well known Dealer Barac & Pervan http://www.barac-pervan.com.hr/en/Numizmat...a/13/165/176/2/ makes on 6th of June an auction in Zagreb. -> Some interesting awards with documents and one TOP item Prototype of Order for National Merits with box. This prototype has different reverse as those of Anatoly. Very rare item seen only in Anatoly Collection. Auction in Genoa San Giorgio Aste another renowed ODM Dealer San Giorgio Aste http://www.sangiorgioaste.com/ita-site/auc...AVIA&ris=10 makes on 6th of June an auction in Genoa. -> Some Partisan Stars 1cl, 2nd, 3rd and few other YU orders. Most important is Brest Star of Order of the Grand Star of Yugoslavia, even that it is not complete very rare piece. Last time sold by the same auction house during RED AUCTION for ?7.000. Initial price is very low ?500 estimates ?750. I'm sure that this price will go higher. Best Regards Waldemar

Of course, I will send you some images. w

Is the reason why you doubt the lack of existence in Mr. Rudaz book? Are tombac made order: Order of National Army 1st cl and Order of the War Flag are they made in late '80 too? How do you explain the Order of the War Flag without hallmarks, made from silvered und gild tombac awarded to JNA General with awarding document from 1954? Mr. Rudaz wrote that only 2nd und 3rd class of Order for National Merit after 1981 were made from tombac, not 1st class. How do you explain first Order for National Merits 1st cl. without hallmarks and made from tombac? I could put more examples, but it is unneccessary, SasaYU as you earlier wrote we are only humans and humans make mistakes. Si did Mr. Rudas some mistakes, I found some and corrected some of them but maybe I made other mistake, probably yes, who knows? I think that diskussion was interesting to other members since some facts are not common known. :cheers:

As you know Mr. Rudaz was on duty in 80 and that time he has deep knowledge of all details. Till 1985 was not exactly defined what part of orders are made from what metal. Mr. Rudaz exactly describe that awards but in his description he didn't mention the orders I mentioned ONA1, OVZ1, ORZ, he was in office at that time, he had deep knowledge how the awards werde made at that time. It is not possible that he has overlooked the way how such important military orders at that time were made. it is in my opinion not possible. These orders were made earlier, these were first orders where the structure of used metals was not specified. This is consistent with other facts: I've seen Order of the War Flag without hallmarks made from tombac and plated with gold and silver awarded to JNA General in 1954. As you know the new law introduced in 1986 specified what parts of awards are made from what metals as described by Mr. Rudaz. Why should IKOM produce after 1986 awards which were in conflict with existing law? This is not possible. Could you tell me based on what facts do you think that such orders were made in late '80? Thank you SasaYU, interesting diskussion :cheers:

I know SasaYU that he was a Chief of bureau of orders in Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia. But this fact doesn't explain the question why do we have orders which were not described or mentioned by Mr. Rudaz without taking into consideration that maybe punctual he has not all information. As we know there are Order of National Army 1st cl without hallmarks made from tombac and plated with silver. This Order were created at the same time as Order for Military Merits. Why should it be impossible that we have Order for Military Merits 1st cl. 5 torches without hallmarks made from tombac and plated with silver, when we know that at the same time Order of National Merit 1st has been made in this way? Why should it be impossible? Fazit: Mr. Rudaz was very correct in almost all cases, in same cases he had not all information we have today. thanks for your comments :cheers:

I don't know it yet SasaYU. Should I get it I will post additional images.

Can you weigh this order? Here you are: it has 70,1 gr.

Thank you for this link, you have better eyes I see not very much. Anatoly do you mean that there are no Orders of Military Merits 1st cl 5 torches without hallmarks (made from tombac)? :unsure:

Hi A13, Do you mean Rusty's order or this one I posted here? :unsure:

SashaYU thank you for comments, I know this excellent book, generally speaking Mr. Rudaz was very correct. But there are some nor correct information. Of course there is no statement of this type of order. But it does not mean that such order exists, in this point was Mr. Rudaz not correct. I know another such order even with number on inner circle, this order has been posted by Rusty and can be found in OMSA Database. I can give you another samples: due to Mr. Rudas Order of National army 1st class is made from silver only and they have IKOM hallmarks. The problem is that there are Order of National army 1st cl. without hallmarks made from tombac. Due to Mr. Rudaz there are no such orders. Third sample is Order of War Flag, due to Mr. Rudaz this order order is made from gold and silver with IKOM hallmarks and there are no tombac version. Again, there are orders without hallmarks made from tomback, I saw one with Awarding document awarded in 1954 to an JNA General. There are other not correct information in that book, I corrected them in my book. lp w :cheers:

This is better image, you will easily discover that there is tombac behind silver layer. There are no hallmarks, what hallmarks should be put on such mixed composition? Early orders without hallmarks for example Order of the War Flag have no hallmarks, I suppose that they are made from tomback and covered with silver and gold. But still on such orders you will find no hallmarks. I saw Awarding documents from 1954 for such order.

Interesting question Anatoly, I'm convinced because there are no hallmarks and since the order were worn you can see it, look at the ends of rays between 700 and 800. You will see tombac behind silver layer. These are early orders made from tombac and cover with thick silver layer. The way how the order was made is consistent with other orders made at that time.

and Reverse without hallmarks

5 torches: