irishmedals

After a quick look, all 3 medals certainly look genuine with nice patina. The 1916 medal also has the older and thiner top suspender bar but a rather tatty ribbon. I personally don't mind if ribbons are tatty as it adds a bit of personality and originality. Pity the seller hasn't used the word 'Irish' in the item heading as it would attract more bidders who search for Irish Medals. €8000......interesting starting price! too high maybe?

Hello tommobecket and welcome to the forum, Sadly i cannot add further research to what Irish1916 has already told you about the medals etc. However what you have already is an amazing history of Denis Byrne. I am sure there are many collectors and families who don't have half the information you have on their medals, well done for your research and hard work. Could his name have been spelt in the Irish language as Donnacha O'Broin? Did he ever live overseas, UK or USA? this might explain why he never applied for the pension until 1935. I have never (to date) seen a pension file or application from the original Pensions Act of 1924, most were from the later 1930s, 40s and 50s. I also wonder how the Minister of Defence actually contacted those persons in 1924 bearing in mind many fled overseas. Were there notices in the newspapers? word of mouth? I guess by the 1940s it was easier to publish adverts advising veterans of pensions etc. Anyway, good luck with your research and keep posting any updates as i am sure we will all be interested in developments.

In 2003 i visited the old museum in Collins Barracks in Cork city. They have maybe 15 of the M27 helmets on display of various colours and some with original front mounted badge. I think one of the historians there might be able to give you further information. The museum has moved to a new location in the Barracks and i think you still need to view by appointment only. I spoke to 2 people one being Gerry White, the barracks number is: 021 4514000. Perhaps one of the most incredible items that was on display was the Comrac medal postumously awarded to Michael Collins.

Good luck with your exhibition and well done for your efforts...i hope it is a success and raises awareneess to the redevelopment of Moore Street. Have you contacted RTE or TV3 to get some media coverage? a great way of getting the public support behind you.

Hello, You have a 26th Battalion medal, the 26U was mainly made up of Old-IRA volunteers during the Emergency Period. It is definately a genuine medal and ribbon especially with the makers mark 'QUINN' on the back of the pin. Prices of these medals fluctuate like most Irish medals these days. If you are wanting to get a decent price for it then eBay is probably best. If selling privately then ask for 200EURO, it will be attractive to the buyer and should sell quickly. Again irish medal prices have dived considerably in recent times, whether down to the economic change or the lack collectors bidding against each other i don't know. Previously 3 or 4 collectors of Irish medals bid against each other and that sent prices sky high, now we are seeing a return to normality and more sensible prices. Good luck! www.irishmedals.com

If you are refering to original 1916 and War of Independence medals then i am afraid your information is incorrect. Those medals were not made in England but by the Jewelry & Metal Manufactoring Company and later by Quinn & Company both Dublin based makers. Indeed there were 10 batches of War of Independence medals made between 1941 and 1957 and 3 batches of 1916 medals made between 1941 and 1952 - all this information readily available online through various Oireachtas, D?il, Seanad, and Parliamentary Committee debates. The postumously awarded medals do have very smooth engraving simlair to lazer engraving. If you ever get hold of one you'll know what people are trying to say. Officially awarded postumous medals can be so easily faked by getting an original medal and lazer engraving it with a name and number in the style and font used. It is this false engraving and turning regular medals into postumous medals that worries most collectors i know, the value goes up massively. I do appreciate your comment on the fake medals, perhaps it is being blown it out of proportion. I also agree that the Australian copies are well.....crap at the very least. Welcome to the board and try and post a few pics of some of your medals.

Megan, The medals look in excellent condition, especially the ribbon and they do look the genuine items. www.irishmedals.com

Have you any thoughts on who or how are the medals being faked? Over the past 10 years we've seen fakes from Australia which were very poor quality, medals in frames that are correctly advertised as repro, there is also a genuine seller from Cork selling repro medals and advertises them as such. Can you give more details on the fakes from N.I and the quality of them.

I'm afraid it is only the matter of time before top quality fake medals are produced. Even now on Ebay we see named/numbered engraving on the reverse of Irish medals, the font is perfect just like the originals because lazer engraving machines can replicate old fonts perfectly. If people can fake ornate and decorative medals from the likes of England, France and USA then doing an Irish 1916 or 1921 would be easy as they are of simple design and makeup. Dipped in acid and they will have an aged patina. Sooner, rather than later prefect fakes will be in the marketplace and unfortunate buyers will be ripped-off. I like to think i'm an experienced collector of Irish medals but would not buy another medal from Ebay unless i knew the seller personally or the medal had 100% provenance with lots of supporting paperwork. As Molders also said, the 'add-ons' - make of those as you wish! As always, BUYER BEWARE!

One thing is for sure, there won't be any cheap bargains to be had at the North Star Hotel show....those days are well and truely gone.

Paul, i do agree. I've seen silver pieces made by (if i remember correctly) William Egan & Sons a silversmith in Cork and they were of a high quality and workmanship. I believe the majority were made by both Egan of Cork and a Dublin jeweller, i've information on the makers somewhere in my papers but not at hand. I'm wary of something with no detailed photographs and especially without hallmarks which are required my law on any piece of silver and gold in UK and Ireland. The medal is also quite crudely inscribed and not the most attractive medal i've seen. Certainly looks genuine but whether it was inscribed by the recipient or at a later date is anyones guess!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/IRISH-MEDALS_W0QQite...id=p3286.c0.m14 Gentlemen, Does anyone have any thoughts on the above auction? I always believed the solid gold badge was as rare as hens teeth with only 1 or 2 known of, one believed to belong to Countess Markiewicz. Were any of the Cumann na mBan badges, either in gold or silver, hallmarked by Dublin or Cork jewellers?

Yes it could be

I have no doubt the seller of the fakes medals on ebay is an honest and decent bloke. He is based in Cork and i have bought original medals from him and sold to him original medals back in 2002 and his collection of German militaria is excellent. He does sell repro but ALWAYS sells as that never says it is original. I am sure most of the items come from Pakistan as they will make almost anything and cheaply. Several companies email me regulary asking if i want items made such as medals and badges.

My thoughts are also that it is a commemorative medal with no real historical significance. The posting of 'bawn' has a certain air of probability to it. If it had belonged to someone who took an active role in the planning and execution of the Easter Rising then it might be worth the price of ?9,800 + fees. That was alot to pay for an unknown and unresearched item with no evidence of provenance. Had it been a medal for 'special favours' then i believe it would have been inscribed to the recipient from whoever acquired it and maybe for why it was given. A 'sleeper' ??? never heard of those before. I really hope that one day the full story is known about it, but for now i feel the story behind it is very sweet and perhaps tugs at the heart strings.

There is a list....but not accessable publicly. Myself and Irish1916 are currently involved in a study and one of the items is casualty and postumous medals. Dealing with the Irish Defence Forces is, as you maybe aware a long drawn out process and it takes ages to get details out of them. Fingers crossed we will have more information in the coming months. Any update on an 'Irish' forum ?????????

Didn't purchase yesterday as keeping my powder dry to bid on the Sean Mac Diarmada 1916 medal.......that is if Irish1916 doesn't hijack my bid!!! He isn't saying much on this forum at the minute which speaks volumes about his intentions Even Ceallach is quiet The calm before the storm!!!

Tough call - what they end up at and what they are worth are two hugely different figures! The Sean Mac Diarmada 1916 medal is the jewel, depending how many collectors bid against each other determined to get it, perhaps as much as 100K same sort of price as the Tom Clarke medal. A more realistic price would be ??? Lot #670, the Paudie O'Keeffe group, open to debate. As previously noted it is a great set but not a KIA grouping. My own personal idea of valuation would be 20K, but i'd be interested to know what others think. At the end of the day it is an regular set of medals with provenance and not the much rarer officially named and numbered medal set. I'd be interested to know others ideas of valuations - however i don't think anyone is going to show their hand before the auction. I'm not going for either lots, not at the hugely inflated prices they estimate they are asking.

So, with the two auctions in Dublin soon who wants what..........catalogues now online. Pointless us all bidding against each other and falsely inflating prices. We can surely all contact each other and politely request "i wish to bid on lot#" etc etc. Some nice items but not as good as previous years. In the catalogue there are some vastly different estimates and valuations. Is lot# 670 really worth 35,000 - 45,000??? i thought more like 20K maximum as it is still a regular grouping and not a KIA group. Yes indeed if it was a KIA group it might be worth 35K but not as is. Perhaps i am wrong but i think 45K is well over estimated bearing in mind lot # 668 is only valued at 9K and is quite simlair without the armband. Is the recipients name really worth 36K? The Sean Mac Diarmada 1916 medal is a beauty. Anyone interested??? Amazing to think two medals of the signatories of the 1916 Proclaimation would go for auction within a year or so of each other. Good luck to all that bids.

Yes, why not have an all inclusive Ireland forum both North and South! after all some of us collect Royal Munster, Royal Leinster etc etc, RIC, DMP, RUC medals and militaria. If Paisley and McGuinness can talk then so can we Great humour Ulsterman! nice to have a bit of lighthearted banter.

Hi Rick, I would echo the comments of An Ceallach - can we have our own forum??? There is massive interest in Irish militaria and it would be great to have a dedicated forum. Please......

Not me either, went out of my budget - and what a price it achieved! Anyone knew who bought it?

I too have seen the 1916 restrike medals and my only guess is that they are perhaps made by the Jewellery and Metal Manufactoring Co from the same sort of dies the 1966 'Survivors' medal was made from??? One thing is for sure the medal shown by irish1916 is an original 1916 awarded to a participant, with the provenance of the original owner and the letter from the Dept of Defence is cast iron. The 1966 medal doesn't have the same sharpness or definition of the early 1916 medals. Correct me if i am wrong but wasn't there also 2 strikings of the 1966 medal??? one has the correct 'Sword of Light' hallmark but the other a regular Irish Silver hallmark. Only a guess that the later 1916 medals were a complete restrike made by brand new dies simlair to the dies used in the making of the 1966 medal, plausable given the fact not too much care was taken with the manufactor of Irish medals compared to other countries such as GB and US.

So, who was medal #1 ??? Did i read once that it was Dev himself?

Brendan and Gentlemen, I am 99.99% certain this medal and ribbon is not one of the Australian replicas. I have seen those and the fake suspender bars are much bigger and have a rolling clasp instead of a pin. Although the ebay medal has a rolling clasp it is original as the later 1916 medals issued in the 1970s and 1980s did have this also. Also the ring affixing the medal to ribbon is correct, the fake medals have a larger, thinner ring which is open not soldered like the original. Colours on the ribbon are totally different to the original ribbon, plus the Oz ribbon was very thick and made of tightly woven cotton. The ribbon on the ebay medal looks original but as previously noted it is slightly wider than the suspender pin and looks brand new. Perhaps there were replacement ribbons made in the 1970s??? If that ebay medal was listed as having a replacement ribbon perhaps it would be more plausable, the fact the seller maintains it is all completely original makes me lose confidence in it as a purchaser. Unless it has concrete provenance i dont think i would consider purchasing a 1916 medal these days. I think adding to a website the exact weights and sizes of a 1916 medal would encourage forgeries. I guess the only way to verify an original medal is to compare like with like and put a definate original alongside one for purchase. I think at this stage i'd have a good idea by looking whether it was fake or original but the unsuspecting buyer might not. I suppose at the end of the day if someone wants to fake medals they find ways and means to do it without seeing the weights and sizes on a website.