demir

OK, here are the pictures:

Hi, I accepted the facts, written by you in this page and your email, that this said medal was a fake one and I am sending it back to the seller and he gladly returned the payment. I am very pleased that you warned me.Thanks. But on the other hand, if you are accepting the fact " While they are not official made originals, they are not fakes.They might though be considered as copies. " just to have some definitions for the words "fake and copy" will you or some other friend from GMIC please tell me; Why do we post some threads saying that "gentlemen beware, such and such are selling fake Mecidi or Osmani orders or some people are selling UN Korea medals especially hard to find Spanish Columbian troop ones, and start yeling hey guys beware they are selling fake UN Korea medals. Why don't we also consider them copies not fakes ? Why some of our friends are returning their TWMs to the vendors after discussing it in this site, why don't they keep them? If any TWM other then officially made poor looking painted TWMs "are not official made originals, they are not fakes. They might though be considered as copies", why do we complain and send the back? When a Government issues a medal and produce it in her officially assigned Government Mint and some one makes it and sells it is it fake or a copy? What is the line betwen original/official medal and a copy or fake or a souvenir for tourists? Are they called "copy" when it is said by the vendor and a fake if it wasn't said ? In this case why did we call this medal fake then, why not a copy recent or old. Is it the name printed on it, may be there was a jeweller/company made one or two TWMs, does anybody know where the BB&Co was? demir

Thanks Saschaw, Taking into consideration your argument and email, I removed the thread and the pictures. If I find out that the medal was made at the time the other makers produced their own TWMs, I will put the pictures back, otherwise it means that it is a recent modern forgery as you say and we don't want to see old medals printed with new names on them. (Please keep in mind I always claimed that ; apart from the TWMs made by the Ottoman Mint, all other maker named or not named TWMs are fake/forgery for me but I love them anyway! )

Hi, You are right I misunderstood the question. There is no relation between the Turkish medals and the Hindenburg medal. As you say its shape is cross and would not be a type of a medal the Ottomans might consider to issue. On the other hand Ottoman officers wore the iron cross. So taking in to consideration your thread I can say that Ottomans did not issue a medal resembling the Hindenburg Cross. :beer:

Hi Please check GMIC page : Turkey Turkish Republic Decorations Not Ottoman by Dave Danner http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=15012&st=0&p=146630&hl=+independence%20+medal&fromsearch=1&#entry146630 for the Independence Medal and 3 types given to soldiers and civilians an for the Turkish War medal pictures and definitions please read mine and other threads in Turkey section. Regard demir

It came from Germany, Aachen. I sent you an email yesterday for the details. As I pointed out on my thread there were several makers in this field and some of them were jewellers. The medal seems authentic to me apart from the makers name on it, but if somebody finds or knows anything else about the authenticy of the medal please inform the community. The problem is there were to many makers in this field and when you see a new name, you try to get it. demir

Hi, The Turkish War Medal was issued (1.3.1915) during the 1st W.W and it is the equilavent of the Iron Cross. After that only Independence War medal was issued by Law 66 dated 29.11.1920 it was given to those participated into the indepence war. demir

Thanks Saschaw, Taking into consideration your argument and email, I removed the thread and the pictures. If I find out that the medal was made at the time the other makers produced their own TWMs, I will put the pictures back, otherwise it means that it is a recent modern forgery as you say and we don't want to see old medals printed with new names on them. (Please keep in mind I always claimed that ; apart from the TWMs made by the Ottoman Mint, all other maker named or not named TWMs are fake/forgery for me but I love them anyway! )

Hello Tim, Yes thats right, after the recipients death, it passes to the eldest child of the recepient or their eldests. Regards :beer:

Hi, I did not even see the medal itself Makedon. It is very rare. Regards demir

ORDER OF SEVKAT

Order of the Ottoman Chamber of Deputies - 1915 ( http://www.turkishmedals.net/) Order of the Ottoman Chamber of Deputies (Meclisi Mebusan Azalarina Mahsus Nishan) - This order was awarded in 1915 to members the Ottoman Parliament - the Chamber of Deputies. As such, it was more of a badge of rank than an order per-se, as it was not awarded after that time and did not have award criteria other than membership in the Chamber of Deputies. Badge: A seven-pointed white enameled gold star, superimposed with a gold crescent and star in the center. There is an inscription on the gold crescent and star with the words "Ottoman Chamber of Deputies" and the dates 1332 (1914) on the left and 1335 (1917) on the right. There is only one class, consisting of a sash badge and breast star. Ribbon: A sash of half red, half white.

Sevkat Nisani (Order of Charity) with jewels.

Sevkat Nisani (Order of Charity) with jewels.

I love these two orders and I would like to share them with you. explanations are from: http://www.turkishmedals.net/ "The Order of Charity (Shefkat Nishani) - Instituted in 1878 by "Sultan Abdulhamid II" in three classes, this order was reserved for females. It was given in recognition of charitable work, or as a token of the Sultan's esteem. The following excerpt from the NY Times of July 7, 1902 illustrates an example of the latter: "CONSTANTINOPLE, July 7- United States Minister Leishman, Mrs. Leishman, and their two daughters; Spencer Eddy, Secretary of the United States Legation, and A. A. Gargiulo, interpreter to the Legation, dined at the Yildiz Palace yesterday and were subsequently received in audience by the Sultan.... To Mrs. Leishman (the Sultan) gave the Grand Cordon of the Order of Nichan-I Chefakat, and to the Minister's daughters he presented the decorations of the same order." Badge: A five pointed star in gold, red enameled, with ball finials and a central medallion in gold bearing the tughra of Abdulhamid II. Around the central medallion is a green enameled band with the words "Humanity, Assistance, Patriotism". The badge is suspended from a small red enameled crescent and star. The second and third class badges, and the star of the first class, have faceted rays between the points of the star, and a wreath of laurels with berries in red and green across the rays. The third class is silver, gold and enamels, while the second class is set with jewels. The first class breast star, which is much larger than the other badges, is set with diamonds, and the berries on the laurel wreath are set with rubies rather than enameled. The first class badge does not have rays between the arm, and is worn on a sash in conjunction with the breast star. The second class badge is worn on a neck ribbon, and the third class on a bow ribbon, attached to the clothing with metal prongs on the back of the suspension device. Some examples of the second and third class badges are known to be set with real diamonds, while others use glass pastes. These variants are jeweler copies, and are often found with European jewelers' marks, or unmarked. Likewise, badges are found in gold, silver gilt, or bronze gilt. There are also variants of the second or third class made by Coro, a well known maker of costume jewelry, which feature a red enameled center medallion with a white enameled surround, and no enamel on the star, as well as floral scrolls between the rays of the stars. While these may have been made as private purchase pieces, they may also have been merely decorative and should be regarded as jewelry, rather than orders. Ribbon: White with green/red/green stripes toward the edges. "

Hello Tim, I copied a picture for you from Mr. Metin Erureten's extraordinary book named Ottoman Medals and Orders, Documented History, Istanbul 2001.* According to the book the " Hamidiye Kruvazoru Humayunu Madalyasi "(medal) is 31.5 mm and 20.3 gr. Regulation Date: 1329 (1913) Obverse: Sultan V. Mehmed Resad Tugra (Seal) Reverse: A picture of the cruiser warship Hamidiye over the waves, under the waves the date 1328 and a section to write the name of the recepient below it. 1328 is the date when Hamidiye sailed to Aegean sea, where "single handedly dstrupted enemy naval activity, sank several Greek Warships and commercial vessels." * It was awarded only to te officers and sailors of Hamidiye. The commander was the war hero Rauf Orbay. The medal is made of bronze and only 394 were awarded. Here is the picture from above mentioned book page: 312 * demir :beer:

Hello Kim, Please read my recent threads on: Korean War Turkish Troops outfit and badges : http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=45822 Turkish Korean War Veterans: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=45821 Korean War Medal given to the Turkish Troops by UN, Wondered facts about the Korean War UN Medal given to the Turks: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=45819 Regards demir

Hi, Here are new fakes by hattersteaclub (previously: abilge99,zolotka, hattersteaclub ) on sale for your inspection: and " All items come from a family member who worked for NATO in Turkey when Turkey first became a member." Lovely !! 1st class Ottoman Mejidie Order medal German Turkish (160493230687) 2nd class Mejidie Order medal Ottoman German Turkey (160493243376) Turkish Ottoman Osmanie Nishani Order medal Germany (160493618209) Turkish Ottoman Osmanie Nishani Order medal Germany 2 (160494029068) Turkish Ottoman Charity Nishani Order medal Germany red (160494090249) 4th class Ottoman Mejidie Order medal German Turkish (160494137063) 2nd class Mejidie Order medal Ottoman German Turkey 2L (160494546256) These are very good examples of what we are discussing ! :anmatcat:

Avsar, You are a gentleman, thanks for warning te community ! demir

Hi Linas, Your above request has been fulfilled ! demir

Dear Murat, It is a lovely order. Dear Josef, please check what I meant, about aligment of the two layers. Check what Murat has and see what our friend is selling. demir

Dear Sir, Lets cut it short. If you give it free what you are selling now I will not get it...... demir

Hello Josef, They are good enough to get an idea. There is another very easy way to understand which is real and which is not: The real Mecidi Order first and second class have two layer rays on top of each other and have crescent and star in between the longest rays, like the one you have on the left side of the picture. The other have the crescent and star on top of the first layer rays and have long pins. I don't know why, but they usually produce it that way, so they can claim later that it is made as a souvenir item. One can say that, perhaps the top layer was reeligned because it became loose. Maybe! but untill this date when I see similar orders, I do not look twice. demir

They like to sell Mecidi and Osmani Orders mainly.