Tony J

Micha, During the Imperial era Godet certainly was a premier producer of awards. Did this same production level carry over to the bleak days of the world wide Great Depression when the Gebruder Godet & Co. tm was in use? I don't know. I have my own reservations about this EK being as it is purported to be. But having said that I am not 100% willing to dismiss this EK as being an outright fraud. I am mostly leaning in that direction though. Tony

It would be interesting to see how many of these appear in the near future. Having collected Godet's for quite some time I haven't seen this type of EKI before. My curiousity is peaked but I am also very cautious about it regarding it being a genuine example. As I mentioned I was taking the stance of the devil's advocate here. Tony

Looks more like a patinaed bronze or brass example moreso than copper to me. How thick is this EK? Tony

Micha, Unusual example to say the least. Why do you think that it is the next fake Godet? I'll be the devil's advocate here and say not so fast, my friend. I have several wartime Godet's in my collection. I'll have to check to see if the core is a Godet product. Right off hand it doesn't look to be. It does look to be well made though even if the quality of the frame is not what we would expect from a wartime Godet produced EKI. We do know that during the TR era there was a Godet/Zimmerman business connection regarding the manufacture of EKIs. Could this one possibly be a subcontracted out example that Gebruder Godet retailed with actually manufacturing it? Maybe an interesting point to ponder. Another point that you may find interesting. The Gebruder Godet & Co. tm according to Jacob's in his book "Court Jewelers of the World" was first used starting in the late 20's or early 30's. Given that, do you show a fake or an early 30's commercial replacement EKI? Just some thoughts. Tony

The blacksmith, Siegfried, with the letters P.O.&C below it was the trademark of Pack, Ohliger & Cie. This mark is only found on Imperial era edged weapons dating roughly 1915-1918. This company disappeared off the rolls of Solingen makers/distributors soon after the end of World War One. P.O.&C was a partnership of sorts of which after the war only E.Pack survived as E.Pack & Sohne. I have a beautifully chiselled, Prussian deluxe model 89 pattern degen in my collection with the P.O.& C. trademark. I have also owned a P.O.&C marked Imperial Fire Officials dagger at one time. This mark is fairly scarce as Pack, which was originally registered as E. Pack in 1909, and again as E.Pack & Sohne in 1915, was not yet the large manufacturor it was later during the TR era. Short term partnerships such as this was not unusual in the Solingen cutlery trade. I have to respectfully disagree with Dan's statement that the swedged upper edge was not used prior to the 20s or 30s. For starters, Avitas' bayonet is proof with the P.O.&C trademark. I also have several Imperial era Eickhorn and W.K.C. NCO bayonets with the swedged upper edge. The back to back squirrel trademark that Eickhorn and the dual king's and knight's head trademark W.K.C. used during the Imperial era verifies them as from that period. If you look thru some references on Imperial bayonets you will see other examples with this style blade. Look specifically at the Imperial presentation bayonets with the WRII monogram on the grip and ocassionaly with the eagle head pommel. Many of these have this distinctive swedge on the blade. As for the grips having three pins versus two pins, this is partially correct. Both will be found on Imperial era bayonets. While the three pin arrangement is somewhat more desirable and a quicker visual means of identifying an early bayonet, it is not solely true. Where you will see the three pin arrangement most often is on W.K.C. produced bayonets. Again, these will be marked with the separate king's and knight's head trademark. There certainly are some other examples also. I recently sold to a fellow collector, a three pin W.K.C marked bayonet which had the swedged upper edge. The grip plates can be made of checkered wood, horn, pressed leather or a form of hard rubber know as gutta percha(sp?) as well as natural stag antler. Another good indicator of an earlier produced dress bayonet is the fact that the hilt will be of iron or mild steel and will be magnetic. These steel hilts will carry through to the mid 1930's with some manufacturors. After that the hilts were changed to a zinc based metal. Just some further thoughts. Tony

The blued steel cored EKs are quite special. The bluing is similar to the finish used on Luger pistols from that era. The core finish simmers in the true light of the sun. I have a few different examples in my collection. Two EKIs, one PB and one SB and two EKIIs, one of which is a prinzen with an Austrian fold to the ribbon. Maybe Glenn or Greg will post a pic for me at their convienience as I'm still a bit techno illiterate at this point. No digital camera, yet.....Just too many EKs yet to buy. Tony

Time for milk and cookies before my nappy. More fun tomorrow my friend. Viso Gero! Tony

Borders? What borders? We have NAFTA now. Come as a Mexican if you must. Tony

Good! Then I'll see you there! Tony

Andy, You have to get your butt down to the SOS next year and help me close down the hotel bar again. Tony

Very nice, Andy! Proper ribbon and pin arrangement. Great condition too. Many of these medals are lacking the original ribbons as they didn't fair to well over the years that many of them were hidden. The soviets didn't take too kindly to any displays of 'bougeoise regime' that was pre 1940 Lithuania. Tony

Stogie, One finger left?!!!!!!! Must be the Frainch. No Lugan would leave a wet bottle in misery. Old time Lugans, like my gramps and his old buddy, the parish priest, used to knock the top off a bottle (open and throw away the cork) just about every Sunday afternoon after services and reminise about the good old days in old country. No recorking the bottles. Or as Old Fr. Stanley used to say,"I wasn't always a priest." Them old boys sure knew how to wet their whistles. RIP to both of them. Tony

Andy, I'll send you some copies. You know me, I'm still an old Nikon jockey stuck in the nondigital age. Maybe I'll get one of them new filmless thingamajiggies for my birthday. Tony

Andy, I just picked up the award documents without the actual medals. Tony

Stogie, You're a Lugan?! Yeh, I loved the tie dyed t-shirts that the Grateful Dead sponsered. Tony

I forgot to add this interesting link on Lithuanian partisans. It's called Heavy Metal in Lithuania, 1940-1965. http://members.fortunecity.com/heavy-metal-lt/index.html Enjoy! Tony

Hi Andy, Very nice medal and with the document to boot. Good for you! I collect Lithuanian. But you know that already I managed to pick up seven new Lithuanian award documents at the SOS this past February. One is a posthumous Vytis Kryzius award to a Partisan. Very hard to find. All the best, Tony

[quote................ tanks without tracks.

Looks like it could be what I asked for eh? Can you post a closeup of just the fellow wearing that bar on his button hole ribbon? Thanks! Tony

Brian, I am somewhat undecided about the 'bad'. Improper ? Absolutely! Kind of like a powerful serving soldier, a general perhaps, putting oakleaves on his Grand Cross. Mix and match was not the order of the day then or now. I just find it very curious that I have seen this arrangement of a WHS on both an 1870 and now a 1914 EKI. Similar one piece backs. Also the same construction on currently available '57 EKIs with the 1939 bar. Nice idea but I would really like to see a period photo of one like that in wear. Prosper, I find your question about a WHS being worn on the ribbon in the button hole intreging. Finding a period picture of that arrangement would seem somewhat easier than the WHS on an EKI. Possible? Maybe Probable? I'm not sure. Good thoughts gentlemen. Tony

Hello Joe, A very interesting arrangement of the WHS attached to a EKI. I was offered an 1870 EKI several years ago with the same arrangement except the pin on the reverse was the twin pin type with two opposing catches that is shown in Previtera's book. I believe that I still ahve the picture of the one offered to me. I have also seen this style with the 1957 spange attached to a '57 era 1914 EKI. One of the more prominent German dealers had it for sale recently. Anyway.................. There is one fundimental problem that needs to be discussed about the set you show. Please keep in mind that the WHS was a later addendum to the 1870 EKII as a second award in a subsiquent war. While the merits can be debated about a apnge attached to an 1870 EKI the fact that your spange is attached to an 1914 EKI is improper. If anything it should be attached to an 1870 EKI. Even then there are sceptics of that arrangement being proper. I only say this as I think that this fact needs to be looked at further. Just some thoughts. Tony

Mark, Flyingdutchman, Imperial and Weimar era daggers could and have been upgraded to TR standards with a pommel change. A crossguard change wasn't necessary. Also, just changing the blade wouldn't constitute conforming to TR regs. The Alcoso trademark shown was used some time after the c.1938 requirement for the Reichsadler pommel on naval daggers. The more I look at the blade pictures the more I wonder if it is an artificial damascus pattern etched on a carbon steel blade. I would be very interested in seeing clear pictures of the tang and any marks if they are present. This inscription was first shown in Jim Atwoods book first published in the 1960s. The quote would be more appropriate to a land based soldier versus a seafaring man. Horses and falcons are not the venue of sailors. Just a thought. Tony

Hello Flyingdutchman, I have some doubts about the blade for the following reasons. The correct name of the company during the Imperial era was Alexander Coppel. The scales without initials is an earlier trademark. I have an Imperial era Wurtemburg Model 1889 degen with this early TM. The trademark shown on the bayonet is a bit later, possibly a late Imperial era but definately Weimar thru early Third Reich era. The most important 'red flag' for me is that the Alcoso trade name was instituted during the Third Reich era after the company was appropriated from it's Jewish owners and subsiquently 'aryanized'. To my knowledge the company was never refered to as Alcoso before the mid Third Reich era. The arched script Alcoso logo shown on your blade was initially used c.1939-1940. Carter's book will also verify this. Unfortunately many reproduction etched bayonet blades and assembled bayonets as well as other dagger blades had this spurios TM applied to them by folks like Reddick and others in the past 25 years or so. Sorry to put such a grim spin on an otherwise fine looking dagger. Tony

Dan, Thanks for the further info on the units based in Kiel. What would your opinion be about the scarcer unmarked Hansen EKIs like the one Marshall posted for me? I know the old saw about not placing much value in 'the story' about any medal that cannot be provenaced. The 'story' of my unmarked 'Hansen' EK that Marshall posted has been in my collection about twenty years. I'll have to look in my records but if memory serves me right it was a vet buy. In the time I have been collecting EKs I have seen several other examples of this cross. They were all marked identically without the Hansen name. That is why I am very curious that at this time such a large hoard of marked examples appears on the market. I am still not sure if the name application is contemporary to the time of manufacture. I will be gone til Sunday and will not be online til then. Gone hunting. All the best, Tony

Good point Dan. Among other unmarked EKs I have a Godet screwback that is unmarked. Made for another retailer? Who knows. I was just wondering about this as I have not seen these rare EKIs marked with the Hansen name before. Live, learn and wonder. That's what I find so enticing about collecting the Iron Cross. Tony