joerookery

Don't forget about F?hnriche. While they were Unteroffizier mit Portepee they did not all wear the cockade. No American rank corresponds. :speechless1:

Actually what Tony is talking about is right online about the Vizefeldwebel. The crux of the debate is did this guy -- the Vizefeldwebel -- upgrade his issued helmet? If indeed the individual did-- then you could possibly have an issue helmet with some private purchase parts on it. Sort of a privately upgraded issued helmet. I think it's possible others do not as issued helmets were supposed to be government property. I think the jury is still out. It just keeps everything interesting!

Thank you Thomas! Tony and I have debated this issue on pickelhaubes.com and I am not convinced it is either fish or fowl. We have different views on this and I'm not sure which one is right. There seems to be a series of references that lump this rank in the officer world. However, they're not supposed to be I don't think -- I side with Rick here. The problem is that there were none of these guys before 1914. They were authorized and envisioned but never tested. If you had an issue helmet as a Vizefeldwebel would you upgraded it? Why are there examples of full officer ones? Were there some in between? Tony says absolutely not but I am not so sure. There seems to have been a lot of confusion at least in my mind when this rank finally appeared. An entire AKO revolving around the disciplinary authority attributed to the rank. The idea Rick had of veterans helmets I think is very interesting -- my problem is I'm always looking for an easy box when they don't always exist! Thank you again Thomas!

Glenn Thank you as usual for your reasoned response. It seems as though there was great confusion about this rank in 1914. as it has never been used since creation It was the subject of two AKOs in 1914 alone. I really like Kraus. There just doesn't seem to be a lot of standardization after the start of the war for this rank. There are several different types of private purchase helmets. It is not clear to me if one-year volunteers were issued helmets or not in August 1914. I know what the prewar regulations dictated but picture evidence seems to indicate that was not always the case. then there are the cases of those issued helmets with a personal tag from a one-year volunteer. the example of Mr. Weber that Chris has translated throws more fuel on the fire making him sound like the officer. The existence of the AKO tells me that many Germans were not sure exactly what these animals were. So I don't know how well a 20-year-old uniform order was accepted by all.

Glenn Thank you so much. What regulation is that? I have the AKO on this but not a regulation do you have such an animal? I have not seen anything black-and-white that lumps this guy one way or the other -- where is it? I need to look at Kraus. Thanks again. VR/Joe

Thank you Rick! If anyone could find this guy it would've been you. I know nothing about individual also research maybe I should learn -- I assume he cannot be located because he is neither active nor commissioned ? In the world of helmets this rank has caused a lot of questions. Portepee Unteroffiziere wear a cockade on the helmet that is similar to an officer's cockade but is smaller and a bit different. What about Stellv. ? It seems that they wore pure officer helmets. But assuming they started at an enlisted rank, they could easily have an issue helmet. Did they upgraded it? Part way? I'm sure there is no rule that is one-size-fits-all. These guys are clearly neither fish nor fowl. Several written sources such as the pay tables grouped them with officers. But they aren't real officers... nothing is ever easy. Thanks again!

This is a picture of an officer's chest from the Trawnik collection. Can this individual will be found? Inside the box was found an original 153rd officers helmet with a Landwehr cross. I'm still trying to determine what kind of helmet people of this rank were entitled to -- especially as they shifted -- but I cannot find Landwehr infantry Regiment 153. Am I being thick? That is LIR isn't it?

Chris, My webpage http://www.pickelhauben.net I look forward to your biography. I would offer to meld his information into a mobilization and commissioning story especially with his Stellv. time! We could both use it. I hope his information fills in some holes.

Chris, I had started writing another article when my mind went back to Mr. Weber. Do you have documentation that shows this guys education before mobilization? He clearly was a one-year volunteer in the 88th. As such he had free agency and did not have to live near the regiment. Do you know where he lived in 1912? However, he did have certain tests to pass and it seems as though based on his student hat, that he actually attended a University. How far did this guy go? Upon mobilization when he was handing out uniforms, does the diary give out any more information about where those uniforms were stored? Was it from the company Kammer? In the mix of issue items and private purchase items he seems to have both and it is not clear why. One -year volunteers were supposed to provide their own stuff or at least pay for it. However there exist examples of issued helmets with one-year volunteer identification tags in them. Why? There seem to be several possibilities and perhaps Weber's documentation can help explain this. Could they rent equipment and clothing from the government? Could they buy it from government stores? Were they just issued a bunch of stuff upon mobilization regardless of one year volunteer status? I'm always searching and this is a real treasure trove!

Of course no problem-anytime.

A picture of the 69th during mobilization. This is really fantastic and it tracks entirely with my understanding of one-year volunteer use and promotion early in the war so I wasn't that far off! I recommend you read when you get a chance the first several chapters of Jeffrey Verhey's book entitled The Spirit of 1914. The subtitle is militarism, myth and mobilization in Germany. The social historians and specifically this book have done an admirable job in the last several years really bashing the spirit of 1914. This book ties it all together quite well I think. Clearly this soldier was a young man of some privilege and much education who embrace the idea of mobilization. The crux of the theorem is that this was a bourgeois phenomena. He also goes on to explain how most of those parading for mobilization were located in Berlin and only small numbers in outlying cities such as Trier. He does a masterful job in footnoting the newspapers and the political leanings both of those educated enough to write memoirs and diaries and those members of the proletariat who could not. This seems to be a sterling example! Simply sterling! Thanks for the work you have done on this.

Paul Do You know there are any new ones coming out? I have the first three and I'm a little disappointed that the Landwehr and reserves are not in the infantry volume. These are expensive little books! Very good but very expensive. :rolleyes:

It is almost impossible to find Musterung pictures. that is probably because no one knows what they are and they are not wearing uniforms. This is an exceptional photo of some members of the class of 1918. The Musterung is identified as well as the Jahrgang in this case 1898. I have another card which says Musterung 1915 in the same handwriting as the sign but no year for the class. I do not know where these guys are from as the back of the card is blank. If you understand nothing of this -- believe me I understand. Read this article: http://www.pickelhauben.net/articles/MilitaryService_08.html

Please send me edits!! I have a small disability and am restricted to typing using a voice typewriter. All too often I miss the very obvious. Thank you for looking. I was not aware of the benefits you listed for being a one-year volunteer -- makes sense -- thank you for sharing! There seems to be a significant amount of controversy about how difficult the officer examinations really were. There certainly was a royal effort to make the tests easier and increase the graduation rates. On the one hand it seems as though you could get a royal dispensation for just about anything. On the other hand even the Red Baron flunked one of the tests and became enlisted for a while affecting his seniority.

Thank you for that very kind complement, it is surely not deserved. I ran into the academic publishing rat race when I used to teach at the U.S. Army war College. I'm not a historian, just an old retired operator who still is trying to figure stuff out in the imperial world. I would love to publish in some other magazines but have not made any effort to contact them. I'm well on my way to completing a book on the subject. Frankly I think Playgirl missed the mark. They have badly underestimated how many girls think the Wehrordnung is sexy.

http://www.pickelhauben.net/articles/MilitaryService_08.html If anyone is interested the flowchart is on page 2.

I think you are right. The visor trim on the last picture seems to be thick. The three stooges and the studio picture seem to have a thin visor trim. This is pretty normal as these guys could well have a dress helmet and a service helmet. It is explained more in this article: http://www.pickelhauben.net/articles/new%2...arVolunteer.htm

Yes they were! Can you tell from the picture if those numbers were applied by cloth or with a stencil? From here it looks like stencil but I thought I would be sure. If

What a tremendous grouping! As chance would have it I have one of these helmets and I would agree with Chip that they are extremely hard to come by. In general the answer to this would be yes because this guy was a one-year volunteer infantry Regiment number 88. so the picture you see of him wearing the helmet is a picture of a private purchase helmet that either he paid for or was given as a gift to him as was a common practice. He probably did his one-year volunteer time sometime before the war in Regiment 88. It looks as though he did not continue on or perhaps finish his requirements to become a lieutenant before mobilization. The picture you included of the two soldiers wearing the Uberzug of Regiment 88 seem to show him enlisted in the Regiment prior to transfer but post mobilization. Is the card dated? There is some indication that possibly these guys were provided issue helmets upon mobilization if they did not bring their own. That is not written in stone anywhere there are just bits and pieces of clues. Then it seems as though he was commissioned. Do you have that date? fantastic stuff -- I'm very envious!

Chris There is this article of course helmet oriented. http://www.pickelhauben.net/articles/new%2...arVolunteer.htm

I need some help on Patents. I just got finished reading the memoirs of Ernst Rosenhainer a reserve lieutenant in the Prussian army. He entered service as a one-year volunteer and was commissioned a second lieutenant on the 19th of November 1912. The one-year volunteer time was done in infantry Regiment 96. During the war he served in two companies of Infantry Regiment 96 and then eventually in Landwehr infantry Regiment 32. Infantry Regiment 96 had a very distinct helmet. There is a distinct difference between the helmets of a reserve officer and a Landwehr officer. The only picture of this lieutenant wearing a helmet is a prewar photo of him wearing a reserve officer helmet from Prussia. Here is my question: as reservists were associated with regiments were they commissioned as such? I guess the more clear question is what uniform should this guy have worn in the different units? He got an award from Reuss (JR96) as well as several from Mecklenburg- Strelitz where he lived. Help me think through this please.

I thought I would share something I got yesterday. All of the social historians discuss off-limits areas in Berlin as well as three streets where allegedly you could not smoke. This was done to maintain the image. Most of the off-limits areas had political overtones with the intent of keeping soldiers away from the SPD. This small 30 page booklet lists the street addresses of off-limits establishments and the areas where you could not smoke during the day. The off-limits areas and no smoking areas were a great deal more prevalent than I was led to believe. There were a heck of a lot of them. Interesting little piece of history.

Chris this has nothing to do with your photograph but I thought you would enjoy this paragraph on internal movement-- from the never-ending tome.

What a great grouping!