dblmed

TeNo M40 Ensatztruppen Field-Grey Uniform - Details - #1 Posted for Camonut

Thanks Camonut! Nice Photos & this is the kind of detail that we are hoping to see! Yes - the small images make it a bit hard to see though. If you use Photoshop, you can start with a larger image, like 8" x 10" - then reduce to 72dpi, and "Save for Web" in a < 100kb size. - or - I'll be pleased to resize them for you & Post them here - send images to me at: dblmed@earthlink.net Txs, Dave/dblmed

Wasserschultzpolizei-Polizei-SS-TeNo & NSDAP -#3 This is a quite nice 'Group' photo which Gary9 has OK'd for me to Post. (Gary enjoys tempting me, when a TeNo subject is also shown!) This Photo 'begs' for a review of the Many wonderful Uniform types shown! (1) The Wasserschultzpolizei officer on the far Right is 'showing' a new boat to Gauleiter Dr. Jury, and other dignitaries. The boat has green foliage (evergreens) on the Oar-Locks - which is a christening custom. ? The Visor Eagle of the Wasserschultzpolizei officer is the Largest one that I've ever seen! Huge! (But, I've only seen less than a dozen, so perhaps it is not as Special, as I feel that it is?) Your Opinion? (2) 2nd from RT. - Allgemeine SS Officer, with 32 or 52 on RT. Collar Tab / Patch. ? It Probably ID's an SS Standart/Sturm in Austria? (3) 3rd from RT. - Gauleiter Dr. Jury in Pary Overcoat - BUT, his Arm Band is Not the type usually associated with a high NSDAP Official? (4) 4th from RT. - PolizeiGeneral (Collar Tabs seen) with the ?Black Lapels on a High Officer's Great Coat? (or were these Green, for Polizei?) (5) 5th from RT. - (in background) The Visor Cocquard (?sp) is unusual - perhaps it is for Zoll? (6) 6th from RT. - (Gary knew that I'd find it!) TeNo Landesfuhrer Walther Junecke (LG XVII -Wien) - ID'd by his famous dueling scar on the left cheek & the distinctive LF Collar tab. (7) OTHERS - ? 3 TeNo Officers with XVII only - on the RT. Collar Tab - denoting that they are assigned to TN LF Junecke's Stab / Staff. ? SS (Waffen) High Ranking Officer ? Another Polizei High Ranking Officer, in Greatcoat. (8) DATE - based Only on the TeNo Uniform, I feel that the Photo is prior to Mid 1943, when the TN "Cog" was removed from the Dunkelblau Uniforms (via dated Photo Evidence, but with no supporting Regulations - Yet!) The Other Uniform types, may also point to a Date Range, as well. What a neat Photo to examine! Some different Uniform types for everyone. Plus, it's a pretty nice Boat... Txs, Dave/dblmed

Wasserschultzpolizei-Polizei-SS-TeNo & NSDAP -# 2 REVERSE of Photo - Discussion to follow!

Wasserschultzpolizei-Polizei-SS-TeNo & NSDAP -#1 FRONT of Photo - Discussion to follow!

Hi Camonut - RE: Your M40 TeNo Einsatztruppe Tunic We would really enjoy ANY Photos which you could Post - ? Front, ? Collar ( & Underneath/Flipped Up) ? Reverse, ? Both Sides, Showing Sleeves ? & Lots of Interior Detail Photos! .......................... Txs, Dave/dblmed

Camonut - Yes, The Pebbled Claw Buckle (with Black Belt) would have been appropriate for the TeNo (even though the Assmann catalog, an some TN Publications only showed the Smooth Claw Type. (Photos show that TN men did wear both Pebbled or Smooth Claw Buckles.) Size determines EM / NCO vs. Officer (Officer is the Larger size - but, as in most things TeNo, I have seen Officer photos with the SM Size, and EM photos with the Large Size! I believe that it was a matter of Availability, Expediency, and then, War Time Conditions. (I have Not seen a TN Black Belt, which was TN Maked - but, that would be a real PLUS!) nesredep - Thanks for the Assmann Catalog pages and Angolia's "Buckle Book" shows the beautiful TeNo Silver Buckle and Brocade. Like so many things TeNo - these Beautiful Buckles are very, very hard to find. I know of only 6-7 TeNo Silver Buckles, & only 1 TeNo Gold Buckle, so far (BUT, I have to believe that there are more 'hidden' in old European Collections!) I was extremly lucky, and was able to purchase the TN Gold Buckle as a part the Estate of TN Landesf?hrer Walther Junecke, who was also a GenMaj. der Polizei. ATTACHMENT - Silver TeNo Officer Buckle + GOLD TeNo High Officer Buckle ........ Txs, Dave/dblmed

Hi Paul (I hear that California is Calling You!) TeNo Buckles (EM & NCO) 'Standard' Types are VERY Rarely found, and the Buckle Collectors grab one up - fast! Seems that they were made ONLY in 1932-1933 (from what we know). Then, the Open Claw Type Buckle, became the "TeNo Standard" Buckle. So, with such a short time of use = very few Buckles, & then how many survived? I only know of 1 of these EM / NCO buckles in a Collection - RARE!) TeNo Officer's Buckles did not show up until 1940. with the also RARE Silver TN Buckle & the Ultra-Rare TN GOLD Buckle (only 1 Example know) - and, both for use on the Brocade Belt. Shown are the Only TN Buckles of which I am aware. (Photos from "Defending the Reich" & "Police, Vol. 2" (Buy the Books! Both are Super!) ....Txs, Dave

Yes, the shown TeNo Buckle is a 'Fantasy / Fake' Item which turns up from time to time. (Real TeNo Buckles, are an Ultra-Rarity and almost never come up for sale!) The Booklets, TN Leitfaden, #'s A - F, have some interesting TeNo information in them. It is mostly the Technical Stuff which the TN did, but fun to read about! Also, sometimes they are marked with the Ortsgruppe, like the Malmedy one shown. I have All except F, and I am looking for it! .... Txs, Dave/dblmed

Congratulations Paul! What a Splendid & Diverse LUFT Collection! You have Collected carefully and well - and the Condition is Primo! Hopefully, your Transfer will be to a WARM Location, for a Change! Best.... Dave/dblmed

Study of the REVERSE of the TN Nadel TRANSLUCENT Type REVERSE of the TN Nadel Translucents Let's Look at the REVERSE of the TN Nadel Translucents (in the Same Order) This Looooooong "Discussion" is ONLY for those who wish to pursue the 'Mysteries' of the magical TN Pins! Just like on the FRONTS, those BACK Variations start to pop up ... Right Away! GES. GESCH. - I Like to see the PERIOD (.) after the letters, as it mimics the Horizontal Catch TN Pin models, which I believe are authentic. Also, I like to see 'Crisp' Letters, and not the 'Blurr' seen on the No-Period Letters (Again, USUALLY!) (This 'Anomaly' IMO, is only seen on Pins @ 2, 5 & 7.) LOCATION of G. G. - I like to set it near to the top edge of the TN Pin (just like on the Horizontals.) ? SEEN on PINS #: 1, 3, 4 & 6 ? NOT Seen on PINS #: 2, 5 & 7 SERIAL NUMBER - It is believed to be factual, that the Serial Numbers were 'hand stamped' - just like on the TN Honor Badges. Thus, one would Expect to see some height / spacing Variations, (with Hand Stamping.) ? SEEN on PINS #: 1, 3, 4 & 6 ? NOT Seen on PINS #: 2, 5 & 7 DEPTH of Ser. Number - I prefer to see a Very Definite 'Hard Strike' vs. a 'Light Strike' as a preference. A TN-Mann 'whacked' these with a Jeweler's Hammer (Hopefully!) & there should be quite an indentation, IMO. ATTACHMENT RONDEL (Circle) - I prefer to see the Larger Size, rather than the Small Size. (Yes, Some exceptions, but Large is the one seen on "ID'd" TN pins, IMO.) ? LARGE RONDEL ? SEEN on PINS #: 1, 3, 4 & 6 ? SMALL RONDEL ? SEEN on PINS #: 2, 5 & 7 RED FLAG - is the Large SQUARE which is found at the base of Nadel / Long Pin - before it joins the securing Rondel. (IMO, This is a finding to seriously consider as to NOT Purchase that TN Pin). However, as in all of this Study, I've seen exceptions, like PIN 6 which has a small and 'fine' tapering SQ. Base, which I 'believe' is OK. ? "Red Flag" LG. Square is SEEN on PINS #: 2, 5 & 7 KNURLING of Long Nadel / Needle - I prefer to find the Open & Raised Knurling Type, as seen on PIN # 3, when I have a choice. But, again there are exceptions. Smooth, is generally a "Red Flag" unless all else checks out to be OK. Very 'tight & smooth' Knurling is suspicious to me, IMO. COLOR of Reverse - These Pins had some type of a Nickel Plating / Finish - over the Cupric 'shell' - so, with years of Oxidation, we'd expect to see some signs of darkening. I like to see a slight 'Golden' tone to the Backs. (Personal Preference.) My PIN # 2 - is a REPRO, IMO, for these reasons: a. Back finish is speckled & compressed metal & is as 'Shiney' as NEW (Which it is!) b. Under Hi-Magnification, I see metal grains inside the '934' Numbers - leading me ....to conclude that it was CAST, with the Numbers already in place. NOT Stamped! c. I don't like the Ultra shallow Knurling of the Nadel. d. The FRONT is also 'too New' and too shiney. ??? So, WHY Did I But this TN Pin??? - in order to Study and to Learn from it. Are PINS # 5 & 7 also 'Fake?' - I hold them as 'suspicious' but not yet moved over into the "Fake" category. The Large Numbers & Low Numbers come out as Suspect, in this study of only 7 TN Translucent Pins. However, I 'believe' that this configuration was also a correct one, for the 'Real' TN Pins. I've seen other Large Numbers & Low Numbers TN Pins which I feel are Legit. TN Pins & I would not hesitate to add them to my Collection. I 'believe' that PIN # 2 was copied from an Original TN Pin, by a clever "Faker" who had Direct access - to the REAL Pin - which 'Looked' like this! I 'offer' ALL of the Above (and my general Comments) as one who is a dedicated TN Collector and a TN Mini-Historian, and not as ANY "Authority" on PINS. Just my personal feelings, based upon Handling & Studying a large number of these TN Items. I may be "All WET" and "Totally Incorrect" regarding some of my 'Conclusions', but I am here to Share & to Learn! We NEED to start Somewhere? If I am wrong, I want to learn the Right Answers STUDY These, and Let's hear the Opinions of Other Collectors. .....Txs... Dave/dblmed

TeNo Pin "FAKES / REPROS" Don't we ALL wish that we Could 100% Spot that Fake? I one found a WebLink for TeNo 'Repro' Pins, and followed it - but it turned out to be a dead Link. My conclusion is that 'Yes' someone was selling some Fake / Repros, but unfortunately I wasn't able to get one to examine. NO SMOOTH SHAFT / NADEL: I would shy away from Nadel Pins with a Smooth Shaft - the Shaft was meant to be Knurled, so a Smooth shaft is inconsistent. (However, others would argue that the Smooth shaft could be a 'period replacement.' True.) But, for me, the Knurled Shaft is a better bet, when considering a TN Pin. NUMBERS: Personally, I shy away from 'Non-Numbered' Pins, as just my preference - but, 'Some' Non-Numbered TN Pins are going to be GOOD. (Since you can also find the Numbered ones, I'd buy those types, IMO.) Size of Numbers: At this point in my 'study' - I haven't found a concern for the SIZE of the Numbers used (since we see Number Size Variations on the TN Ehrenzeichens (Honor Badges.) By my Observation, the Translucent Types - more often have Larger Numbers, and a Lower Sequence Numbers. This may, or may Not, be significant - time and observation of LOTS of TN Translucent Pins will tell us whether this stands up, as a Criteria - or Not. Enamel Heat Test: One of my 'Distant Future' plans to 'test' the Enamel of TN Pins, by carefully inserting a HOT Needle into a small corner of the Enamel surface. A Collector once commented that he felt that the 'Enamel' on Fake Pins was a type of Plastic - so a HOT Needle should penetrate it. (The thought is that Fakers 'MAY NOT' take the time consuming step of Heat Enamelling?) I have NOT done this yet - but it's on my List of future tests to perform. CHEAP PRICE TN PIN: When the price is $25-$50 and is 'too good to be true' - it's a Red Flag to me. Yes, you sometimes get a real bargain, but on Dealer Sites - they KNOW the prices of these pins (so WHY a Low Price?) Examine the bargain priced ones very closely - as on http://www.Militaria321 and http://www.GunBroker. At this point in time, I also have more Questions than Answers! (But, by studying them, like we are doing, "Maybe" we'll find some Answers.) .... Dave/dblmed

TN Translucent Nadel Pins - Noted Differences Let's look at the more "Rarely" found TRANSLUCENT TN NADEL Pins 1st, If you Start w the FRONT SIDE, I think that you will be surprised at the Number of noted Differences (and I haven't listed ALL that I have observed.) You'll note that the Variations are a 'mix and match' - with different Pins having similarities with others, and significant differences. This makes "Typing" them quite a challenge - a work in progress! ........Let's Focus on the FRONTS 1st - - - then I'll post the BACKS if there is interest in proceeding. When you Look at the Differences, it becomes apparent that More than one Maker was at work on producing the TN Pins. (Even the much less common <5,500 TN Honor Badges had at least 3 Makers. - 2 Named & 1 Unmaked) I'll grant that I am not an authority of TR Pin manufacturing techniques. Some variance could be seen within a specific maker. But, there are so many Absolutely Significant Variances, that one is lead to the supposition that many Makers were involved. Adding to this, I have only recently learned that his general model TN Pin was 'announced' in the TN Verordngsblatt in 1935, shortly after the announcement of the TN Enrenzeichen (TN Honor Badge) - and that these Pins had a span of issuance of 1935-1938. So, that meshes with my belief (but, factually unsupported), that some of the Manufacturers (or their SubContractors) of the CENTER ENAMEL Part of the TN Honor Badge, were also involved in TN Pin production. (But, they were Using a different DIE for the BACK of the Centers of the TN Honor Badge emblem, since they 'almost always' have that "A" - of yet unknown Significance.) LEGEND: I used A, B, C, D to Locate the 4 Axes (Shown on Pin # 1) for reference of Comments, so you know where on the Pin (A, B, C, D) I am referring to, in the below Photo. Pins # 1 - 7 are Shown at the Top, and then with # references to the Pins in the Comments below. A good TN Buddy told me that I got into measuring the thickness of "Angel's Wings" when it come to the study of TN Items, and perhaps that is the case. I find these TN Pins to be utterly beautiful as well as fascinating to study. Don Scowen is the 'Master' of Pins, IMO, and his work has encouraged me to look deeper at the TN Pins & study them. Hopefully Don will join in, and share his latest 'dicoveries' regarding these TN Pins! Also - Hopefully, you guys will see many things which I have missed & that will be educational! PLUS, You May Have Some Other TN Pin Types which I do NOT have Illustrated or Shown. ? Look at your TN Pins to see 'if' they FIT or 'if' they DIFFER, and join in. We can ALL Learn by the exchange of information! YES, This is a LOT of Information here, and it ONLY Applies to the TN Translucent Types! .....Txs, Dave/dblmed TN Translucent Nadel Pins - Noted Differences

TN Pins-Opaque-w-Nadel (Lapel Pins) The most commonly found Type (by Far) are the TN Pins-Opaque-w-Nadel (Lapel Pins) ? Why the different construction? ? Why the different types? ? LOTS of WHYS? The TN Pins-Opaque-w-Nadel offer the largest range of subtle differences, or it may be that because they are more commonly found - that one is able to pick up on those differences? .................Txs, Dave/dblmed

TN Pins-Translucent-w-Nadel + Horizontal Catch Types Here is a grouping of TN Pins-Translucent-w-Nadel + 3 Horizontal Catch Types (Nadel is the familiar "Lapel Pin" Type.) Again one sees similarities as well as differences. (All pins are mine except for the Trans. Horizontal Example, which belongs to my friend Wagner (Serge). ....Txs, Dave/dblmed

Here's An Ortsgruppe of TeNo Pins, to spur further Study & Discussion. (NOT the best Photos. I just scanned my Riker Box of TN Pins!) Don Scowen 'innocently' got me hooked on these TeNo Pins, when he 1st described the TRANSLUCENT vs. OPAQUE Types! Then, the hunt began & the quest to understand WHY? This Thread should be the "Home" for the discussion and learning curve about these TN Pins, I believe. There is so very much to discuss - about these simple, but 'elegant' TN Pins. So little is 'really' known about the different TeNo ? TN Pins, that I decided that in order to carefully study them - that I needed a LOT of Examples. (The TN Chapter 19 in "Police, Vol. 2" was a big help in the advancement of TN Pin knowledge.) My 'belief' is that there were several makers of both the Opaque and the Translucent types of both Nadel (Lapel Pin) and the Horizontal Catch Pin. In the following Images, you'll be able to see (I hope!) that there are some subtle differences in both Construction and in Appearance. I'm very EARLY in my 'study' of these TN Pins, and I do Not yet have a full analysis of what I have seen. But, I have noted some differences: 1. in the Size of the Pins - & Size of the Center COG 2. in the Width & Thickness of the long bar of the 'N' 3. in the Length & Thickness of the TN Hammer 4. in the Depth of the application of the Red Enamel 5. in the Use of Different FONTS for the "N" 6. in Where the COGS Strike Different Pin Landmarks 7. in the Application of the Enamel - High vs. Low 8. in the Finish Details 9. in the Finding of a Large Square Bar Shape, before the Reverse Rondel 10. in the Use of Periods (.) or NOT, after Gesch. Gesch. 11. and MANY other Differences. Have a look, and see "IF" you also - see some Differences. I'll Post some higher Res. Photos of the TN Pins, by Type. ...........Txs, Dave/dblmed

nesredep Nesredep - LOVE that Assmann Catalog, with the TN Metal Items and then the TN Silver Buckle near the back page! Lots of great reference material is found there! ... Dave/dblmed

Schuma Officer's Field Cap-4 Schuma Officer's Field Cap Interior ....... Txs, Dave

Schuma Officer's Field Cap-Front Schuma Officer's Field Cap-3

Schuma Officer's Field Cap-Front Right.... Schuma Officer's Field Cap-2

Schuma Officer's Field Cap-1 I acquired this Field Cap just recently, and it was 'Vetted' out OK, by the boys of the Forum. I'm very excited about it - since it's Schuma (#1) & for an Officer (#2)! ......... Txs, ...Dave/dblmed

This photo is 'by the book' and shows TN Einsatz Soldats with the MATCHING Double Collar Patches. (So, sometimes they did it the correct way as well.) Camonut - The 3 TN-Men on the RT. are YOUR Tunic!, with YOUR Rank of TN-Mann. So, another 'option' is using the Double COGS Collar Patches, for your tunic. PHOTO August, 1941-TN-Dbl-COGS-Russia (Note - TN Cufftitles in wear) Camonut - We're ALL waiting for LOTS of Photos of your Rare TN Einzatzmann Uniform! Best, Dave/dblmed

"....It looks like rank for my tunic belonged to a "what"?..." Your TN Tunic, as is, is for the Rank of a TN-Mann. The LT. Collar Patch should have a COG. The RT. Collar Patch could remain Blank, for this time frame of the TN Einsatztruppen. BUT, you are in luck, in that your tunic has shoulder loops, so it can be 'upgraded' to ANY EM/NCO Rank, for which you can find Collar Patches & Shoulder Boards! (Not easy, to find, but certainly they are not impossible to locate ... with a lot of careful 'looking.') Here is a re-post of the 1940-mid 1943 TN Ranks

"....Also, were the EM/NCO's authorized to carry sidearms? I see Officer's were authorized in 1938." Yes, as this 1941 Photo shows. Also of interest, in this Photo: 1. Wear of the Ultra, Ultra-Rare TN Field-Grey Sidecap, with TN Piping! (I've never seen one...) 2. No Wear of Collar Patches. 3. TN Cufftitle is visible on LT. Txs, Dave/dblmed

"Littlejohn states the field-grey Wehrmacht / Heer type tunic was for wear only in occupied countries and Not worn in Germany (pg 479)." Yes, that was probably written as the 'early' TN Regulations, but again, this was not followed, as multiple period TN Photos confirm. Here is a December, 1943 Hamburg Photo, at a TN Headquarters (there were several), of Bereitschaftf?hrer Klindt, clearly wearing a Field-Grey TN Uniform. (That is inside Germany!) (I have his Albums from France in 1940-41 to Russia in 1941-43, and back to Hamburg in 1943) This 1943 TN Photo is especially revealing, as it gives us a glimpse of the TN of that date, as: 1) Klindt and the TN Officer over his LT. Shoulder, wear NO COGS on their Collar Patches. 2. The TN-Mann above Klindt wears NO Collar Patches, at all! 3. There are 3 TN-Men wearing the TN White Work Uniform, but they wear the Early TN Blue Sidecaps. 4. The TN EM Standing, wearing the TN Field-Grey Greatcoat (5 buttons / side) also is wearing the Early TN Blue Sidecap, when he 'should' be wearing the Field-Grey Sidecap. 5. The man, 2nd from LT. is Luftschutz, which was closely aligned with the TN. Lots to see here, in addition to "TN Field-Grey WAS worn inside of Germany" ... Dave/dblmed