Luftmensch

I've had this since the 1980s, never knowing whether to believe the story I was told. Fast forward 30 years and now I can run it by such esteemed experts as yourselves! ALLEGEDLY, Hugh King was visiting Royal Victoria Hospital Netley and was given the following forage cap and sampler by the director. He said that Kitchener left it behind on a visit with Boer War veterans and, having an association with the Hospital, they kept it as a treasured memento. The sampler was done by WW1 invalids after Kitchener's death and kept folded up with the cap. I don't have a Dress Regulations, but I was told the cap is for the Inspector General of Royal Engineers, which post Kitchener occupied I don't know when. It looks like a general officer's cap to me. The sampler I noticed has "RE IG" prominently displayed at the top below "HK". Why would the sampler highlight that rank when he had more exalted? Any daylight on these would be much appreciated.

Alex, have you seen the Ehrenpreise given in 1918? They are smaller eagles WITHOUT ANY BASE! Just fighting eagles resting on the ground. Go to Helmut Weitze and search Ehrenpreis. He probably wouldn't mind if someone copied the photo. There is also an Urkunde. I asked S. Previtera about this and he says he knows of another one that will go in his second volume.

Hey, Les, you old horse thief! Your icon should get together with my icon. Any major scores in the last few years or are you resting--or flopping about--on your laurels?

Jeepers, great observation. I'm taking the prize back from Paul and Chris and giving it to you...

Okay, you guys share the prize! . My friend Hannes Taeger posted this elsewhere... "O.k., I will follow your invitation - or is it a challenge? - and risk my way on the treacherous path of dealing with non-PC colonial ashtays. Montirungskammer = Montierungskammer = Bekleidungskammer = chamber of military clothes and equipment. What happens? We are anywhere in Africa or rather on a German Pacific Island before 1914. The white officer is looking at his black soldiers who just got their equipment. It looks like the officer had to get a seat under the palm trees for or after his observations. Indeed, it is hard to bring civilization or military order to natives - hard for both sides. One black man is too tall, another man too fett for the uniform, a third man makes exercises with the new pants, others are lacking pants but have boots. From the German military´s point of view a kind of nightmare if one want´s to turn the natives into real soldiers. So, the ashtray tries to illustrate in a funny way imagined or real difficulties which the German colonial masters met when they tried to create troops of natives in their colonies."

Right. I'll just pop over to another forum and let you know...

Der Letzte Mann I think it's called...

Bingo. Hope you're feeding them regularly and changing their paper! Another good tell is the lousy design inside the plinth. That screw is too short. Saw it on all my birds. They tend to flop about after they get too old.

Hi, Stan. I don't remember those swung dashes on my engraving. Do you have finishing nail holes on the other side of the plinth? My Ehrenpreis had the same wording for the action and then a missing name/date plate on the opposite side. It had been removed for anonymity and then the birds swivelled round (I could see the track in the wood) to face the other side. So originally the birds faced the nameplate. I had Theo Osterkamp's Ehrenpreis with just one plate and only the date of his first kill. So quite a lot of variation in engraving.

Hans von Schiller's cloth Zeppelin badge from his Zeppelin Co. coat...

Some of these German publications had gorgeous cover art...

A few Ehrenpreise have been awarded for actions like this!

Superb pieces! Alex such wonderful groups! Here are a few of my oldies but goodies, some of whom have found new homes to haunt! A love this gaggle of Ehrenpreise. Who knew there was such variations in wings. It looks like a flipbook of early animation. The birds are flapping their wings!

You've probably seen this KPM ashtray around. It's not that uncommon. But what is going on in the picture? What is the joke here?

Hmmm...and of course the dagger and Ehrenpreis would be of great interest to me. Let's meet somewhere in the middle, maybe St Helena?

Seeeeeeeehr interessant!!! I owned the engraved Chorus dagger and the engraved Chorus sword (I will post pictures soon) about...eight or nine years ago? I sold them with research to someone in New Jersey who split them up to my horror. I JUST bought the sword back again two days ago. I never heard of an Ehrenpreis to Chorus. Piek, how did you put together the Ehrenpreis and the dagger from all the way over in S. Africa?? Well done! How did you come by the Ehrenpreis and did you acquire it before or after the dagger? Is the provenance strong on the trophy? I know who I bought the edged weapons from. I will see if he remembers his source. Here is the sword...

Good lord, I'm sorry I missed this wild and woolly discussion. Or maybe not! Either way, a piece of this rarity should be carefully studied by German experts who, as Alex points out, have handled Tors or even have a few kicking around for closer comparison. Also a real definitive study of that cartouche is in order. The numbers quoted seem to be in the realm of quick cash for open questions and the real value at a German auction magnitudes higher once these questions are resolved in an unhurried and systematic fashion.

Thanks for the info, Vic. The celluloid / plastic throws me however and suggests late/postwar rather then prewar...but probably as you say civilian or paramilitary association. Red piping is technical / flying troops for Bavarian and Saxon, I know...but what is this kokarde? Rgds

Can anyone ID this visor cap? Blue wool, with red piping and orange kokarde. Visor and chin strap feel like some kind of celluloid. Period? Thanks!

Name is WALKER possibly WALKES

Another thing, that Gieves label doesn't look like those I've seen in WW2 garments.

Thanks for the comments! I have the advantage of being able to compare this side by side with my two RNAS examples. Rayon is in production by 1924 which is right around that period I am querying. The visor is identical in dimension and the chinstrap identical in every respect to the blue RNAS I show. The crown is a hair larger than the blue but actually smaller than on my khaki RNAS, so those aren't obvious tells either. I am also suspicious that this is a made up RN cap but everything is so tightly sewn in and the eagle looks like it's been in there forever but that's not very scientific. Thanks for the warnings about previous made up examples, except this would be a very bungled effort to fake an RNAS cap because the wreath is completely wrong. Since none of you can examine this, I'm trying to approach this from the other end... What did Naval pilots wear in the RAF prior to 1924? What did the FAA of the RAF wear in 1924 and subsequently if patterns changed? If the answer is not the above, then it must be some Frankenstein's creation. As to the name, I can't yet make out every letter but that's a good suggestion. I'm not an RNAS specialist, Mervyn. My primary obsession is Zeppelins and First Blitz on London, which sometimes leads me on tangents like this, when I get into Home Defence and so on. Rgds John