Chip

Rob, I can tell you that the "odd" shoulder board is definitely not a WWI German example. Perhaps it is Belgian, as I know they wore some uniforms made from British cloth. Chip

Here is the period photo. It belongs to Carsten (Holsteiner) from the Feldgrau Forum. Chip

Andy, I do have a copy of a photo of this insignia being worn (an image not owned by me). Kraus says that it is known to have been worn by the Saxons, but he is unsure if any other contingents ever used it. My example is a Probe piece, so I assume that it was originally intended for use by units from any state. I do suppose, however, that the Saxons had some Probe pieces that were particular to them, due to their distinctive uniform differences (that is, Saxon cuffs, Kokarden, belt buckles, Helm-Wappen, usw.). I can Skype on Saturday or Sunday. PM me with times you would be available.

Andreas, Yes! The one in your picture is unofficial. Here is an official pattern, known to have been worn by Saxon pioneers. Chip

Kornel did a good job of identification, but the second strap with the "AR" is actually from the Dragoner Regiment König Albert von Sachsen (Ostpreußisches) Nr.10. I have a M1915 example and the cypher and crown are identical. A Feldartillerie regiment would have had a "bursting bomb" on the shoulder strap. The strap with the rounded end is British or Commonwealth from the five button Service Dress (SD) drab uniform. Your best bet for finding out who the field artillery and cavalry units faced is to look at the "Histories of 251 Divisions of the German Army..." (which you can download on-line). The Kraftfahr boards are a general pattern and are not traceable. The FAR 79 spent the entire war with the 41st Division. Starting out on the Eastern Front, it came to the Western Front toward the end of February 1917 and remained in various parts of France and Belgium (Arras, Albert, Flanders, Argonne) for the remainder of the war. Elements of the 10th Dragoons were also in the 41st Division throughout the war. So it looks like those two pieces were grabbed at approximately the same time. Chip

Typical Reserve FAR shoulder strap (simplified M07 pattern). Notice the special "rounded" numbers are the same ones used for the collars of the Landsturm uniforms.

It's true that reserve FAR units wore metal unit numbers, but they did not wear metal bursting shell (i.e., bomb) insignia. The bomb was the normal cloth insignia like any other enlisted man's shoulder strap. So I repeat that this piece is postwar.

OK, IrishGunner, you win. I found my photos and the highest cover number I have is 843. Ratz!

Super interesting! I had no idea that these old dies still existed in such numbers. I can only imagine how difficult it must be to find such things. Chip

That's a nice assortment Kornel. Chip

Karel, There are also extensive lists for enameled messkits, aluminum cups and aluminum messkits. Chip

Chris, I.R.114 would have had this double green/white underlay for the M15 Feldachselstück and for the Friedensrock & Kleiner Rock. The double piping came in with the uniform change in September 1915 and continued through the war. Chip

One of my photos.

Thanks all. I can't figure out how I missed him in the Ehren-Rangliste. I must have had my glasses off! Appreciate the help. Chip

The list of makers I posted is, of course, incomplete and new names are being added periodically. I think a better description for "hollow bottom" would be "recessed bottom". These were normally multi-piece constructions where the bottom of the cup was soldered/welded to the body. My example is a 1918 Lamprecht cup in a very dark charcoal gray enamel. Chip

A friend has a Saxon Husar Attila (H.R.18) coming that has a tailor's label showing it was the property of one Graf von Schaffgotsch. I don't find him in the Ehren=Rangliste and I don't have any Saxon Rang-Liste. Could someone fill me in on any details about this officer that might be available? Thanks, Chip

Here is a list of manufacturers of enameled cups. The list includes maker stamps and the manufacture dates that have been observed. I lifted this list off the German WWI website Feldgrau. I also contributed to it. -A. LAMPRECHT 16, 17 and 17 with recessed bottom, 18 with recessed bottom -AMBOS 16, 17 (big numbers) and 17 (small numbers) -BECHER 16 -B & F 16, 17 -BING 16, 17 and 17 with recessed bottom, 18 and 18 with recessed bottom -E d.L. 16 -E.H. 18 -E. L. S. 17 exists with small and big markings -E. S. B. 17 -ESCHEBACH RADEBERG 1916 and 1917 -FCB FULDA 16, 17 and 18 -GERMANIA 17 and 18 -G.M.u.Cie 18 -G. R. & C° 16,17 and 18 -Hecker & S 16, 17, 18 -Hiby 16 and 18 -Ludwig Hutzler Beierfeld 17 -KLötzer Nachf. Lauter 17, 18 -Klötzer & Jache(?) -M. Böhme 17 -M. & S. 16 -Neust. Em. W. 16 and 17 -R. LOUIS SCHEICHAUER GRIVOR(?) -S.& E. St.L. 16, 17, 18 (with crossed oriental sabers) for maker: "Stahl und Eisen St.Leon" (Baden-Württemberg). -SFD 16 -SILESIA 16, 17 and 18 -S.M.W. 16 -ULLRICH 16,18 -WUPPERMAN 16, 17 and 18

At first glance, I thought maybe Austrian, but the markings are something like Dutch or Scandinavian. Certainly not German. Chip

This is not an Offizierstellvertreter. They had lace on all edges of the strap except the bottom edge. This strap with the metal number and bomb is more typical of early postwar insignia. Here is a similar model simplified shoulder strap with the Offizierstellvertreter Tresse. Chip

Somewhere, I have a photo of a cover in the 800 number series, so don't count your chickens yet!

I haven't read all of the posts yet, but in case someone hasn't already taken a stab at it, I think the name is Kurt Felzer and he is from the 2.Sächsisches Fußartillerie Rgt. Nr. 19. Notice the Saxon shaped shoulder straps. Chip

LMK 1203

Very nice items! I have a few Luger holsters, but have never owned anything but a Reichsrevolver. Would love a nice Luger. I'm curious about your identification of the Bavarian officer's boards. What do you base that on? What color is the underlay? I would have thought that a Train unit would have Arabic numbers and a blue underlay. Chip

I've been collecting shoulder insignia since 1962 or so and my ideas about this have changed over the years. When I was starting out and building my collection, I would gladly have broken up a pair of straps to get an example that I was needing. In later years, I came to regret that to some extent, both from a collecting aspect and from a historical one. Today, I would be against breaking up a pair. Pairs take up much more room to display, so even though I have many pairs, I only display singles in my frames. The other halves sit in storage boxes. Another factor is that during the war, the shoulder straps that were collected for intelligence and for the most part, the soldier souvenir straps, were taken as singles. The point being, that the vast majority of shoulder straps that were saved after the war (outside of Germany) were singles. Chip

This may be true, but as far as I know, there has been nothing discovered that proves whether it was a wartime or a postwar insignia. The mountain troops museum near Sonthofen has it labeled as a wartime piece, but once again, there is no proof of that. Chip